Ashes-2023 England VS Australia 16 June-31 July
- Thread starter TharkiMan232
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DuneTiger
County Cricketer
Everyone has fundamental weaknesses. If Viv or anyone from that era played nowadays with the analytics we have nowadays I'm sure he'd be found out in some sort of way, still be an absolute superstar but with his weakness being obvious.
wasteyouryouth
Verified
ROOOOOT
wasteyouryouth
Verified
DuneTiger
County Cricketer
Seems I ah... might have been a little bit off with this one...
Bevab
Staff Member
If this is because he got concussed by one Archer over (and then proceeded to dominate him for the rest of the series) and that one series where Wagner (who is the best short ball bowler of his generation) kept him under wraps then no I don’t think he is fundamentally worse off against the short ball than he is to Jadeja or Ashwin.
If this is a criticism of his technique in general then I don’t see how the same can’t be applied to every cricketer of this generation because they’ve all grown up and developed in a different era of cricket with protective helmets. If Smith were to develop in another era he’d play in a different manner with more of a back-foot and evasive game against the short ball… it’s like how you apply the same logic for Viv dominating more with better bats when he could easily struggle to adapt. I think watching the short ball is also easier when you don’t have a whole grill obscuring your vision in front of you (and also because missing one means a nasty blow to you!) but I’m not a professional cricketer so what do I know.
None of these have anything to do with Smith being a better test batter than Viv though does it?
wasteyouryouth
Verified
I actually had a look at some numbers:
Richards averaged about the same as Smith for a time (hit 56+ aged 24 and sustained that for about 7 years) but began to decline aged about 31-32 and did so until he retired aged 39.
As Ponting was on comms, and he's perhaps regarded as the next best since Bradman, I looked at him too. He hit the 56 mark about 30 and sustained until about 34-35. His averaged began to steadily drop at around the age Smith is now. He played for another four years.
I'd imagine Smith's would have a similar drop if he played to 38 or 39. His 56+ years have been going for about 8 years now.
Another big factor, I'd say has some influence is Richards played 507 first class matches. That's more than Smith and Ponting combined.
That being said, 56 is just a random number I picked so it doesn't prove anything.
Richards averaged about the same as Smith for a time (hit 56+ aged 24 and sustained that for about 7 years) but began to decline aged about 31-32 and did so until he retired aged 39.
As Ponting was on comms, and he's perhaps regarded as the next best since Bradman, I looked at him too. He hit the 56 mark about 30 and sustained until about 34-35. His averaged began to steadily drop at around the age Smith is now. He played for another four years.
I'd imagine Smith's would have a similar drop if he played to 38 or 39. His 56+ years have been going for about 8 years now.
Another big factor, I'd say has some influence is Richards played 507 first class matches. That's more than Smith and Ponting combined.
That being said, 56 is just a random number I picked so it doesn't prove anything.
DuneTiger
County Cricketer
Thank god for Manchesters rain....
wasteyouryouth
Verified
2-2 Moral Victory incoming
Bevab
Staff Member
Ponting is easily the weakest out of the three given that he played in the flattest era imaginable and had such a calamitous fall from grace. I don’t even think he’s as good as Sachin and Lara from the same generation albeit the gap between the three is quite small. Viv didn’t have such a steep decline but his was more gradual
It’s a bit of a simplified analysis with Smith though. He had five tests as an all-rounder and was then picked as a middle order batter for a year and half in which he was good. It wasn’t until he was finally given the keys to the number four position that he kicked on like the SmithBot we know. I’m also quite sure that he maintained a 60 plus average for far longer than Viv ever did. In addition he also has been a clear step ahead of his peers statistically and by the eye test. Where as with Viv both Miandad and Border both average similar over the same period. Whilst Viv has advantages over them both that makes him superior to the duo (such as being a lot more destructive, having a higher average than Border for a longer period while the latter was a middle order batter) he also didn’t have to face his own team’s bowling which was quite significantly better than anyone else’s.
T.J.Hooker II
Club Captain
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2022
I made that prediction that first time I saw Smith bat because it's completely obvious to anybody with a decent technical understanding of batting.
And you want to talk about Wagner? In what fantasy world is he express pace?
eta @wasteyouryouth do you have a stat for Smith vs deliveries 92mph and above? Short balls, in particular but it'd be nice to see the whole set.
If his stats are ace at that speed I might have to consider my position. My guess is it cuts his stats by a larger margin than comparable players, though.
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DuneTiger
County Cricketer
It's unbelievable how bad Australia's mindset has been since winning the first 2 tests, we've literally just played to not lose another game.
Bevab
Staff Member
He’s done alright for himself if he can average 58 whilst having a fundamental weakness against the form of delivery every pacer resorts to as a plan B without being exploited when it is that obvious.
Wagner’s not fiery quick but he’s easily the best short ball bowler in tests in the last decade or so.
Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
Given that Moeen, Jimmy and Wood are all off the field and Harry Brook is bowling, maybe?
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