Ashes Cricket General Discussion

[Thieves]

cheers for all the info, I checked and the download wasn't as big a file as I thought it was gonna be so I hotspotted thru my phone. sacrificed some phone data but well worth it, all the settings work now!
now I can bat a bit easier hopefully my all-rounder can finally turn into a proper all-rounder! haha

Great news. Hope you enjoy the game. Which country are u from if u don't mind me asking?

 

[blockerdave]

here's the video of the AI dismissals from the innings i mentioned earlier.

So I've played this game to a conclusion.

It's a 4 day first class match. 100 overs a day. No reviews. Legend AI, batting bowling and fielding hard. Everything default. Not sure of pitch other than grassy and hard. Weather fine/sunny.

AI 483 all out, after lunch on day 2. I make 403 all out similar point on day 3. AI bats till 20 minutes or so before lunch on the final day, declaring 309/6.

My target is 390 or 72 overs to survive. I reach 220-odd for 7 and draw the game to take the 2-match series 1-0.

So much of the game was enjoyable. Varied dismissal types (edges, bowleds, lbw). AI played noticeably more aggressively 2nd inns. A competitive and challenging AI performance. I think I had about 5 edged dismissals (me batting) in the match. A fantastic dismissal where I gloved a hook and the fielder ran and took it as a full length dive just above the grass, leaving me with the tail exposed and 10 overs to go...

But equally there is an accumulation of issues that takes the gloss of what should be a great match. (In fact 2 matches, I won the 1st match by 1 wicket on the final day thanks to an unbeaten 228 by Clive Rice.)

The AI slogging to maintain a 3.5 ish run rate, regardless of player mentality is grating in the extreme.
The lack of understanding of how the pitch should play - it was grassy and hard, but no cracka and fine weather and played like a road, is that fine - left me wondering if I was experiencing aberrant behaviour or not. (Was it pro batting or pro bowling conditions?)
The lack of the pitch having an effect at all - saving the game on day 4 felt no different to playing on day 2.
The ease of batting - even despite my edges, the majority of my wickets were the result of sloppiness. Defensive play has no risk whatsoever.
The game ends and no celebration cut scene for the series victory.

The game has a lot going for it but so many little things need addressing. The removal of features is frankly a disgrace. I'm not really a cut scene kind of guy but seriously, why was it removed? Why aren't pitches having an affect?

The post release experience doesn't give me much confidence these things will be improved, except by random chance.

Ps I will put up some more video of the match tomorrow.

 

[Plotinus]

...the fielder ran and took it as a full length dive just above the grass...

This, I've never seen. Most of the time the fielders seem unwilling to make an effort. Certainly looking forward to seeing that catch in your highlights package. The rest of your assessment seems fair. There is much still to like about the game but it needs some proper attention to fix some of the issues, remove some of the clunkiness and add some much needed polish.

 

[bigmuzz]

Great news. Hope you enjoy the game. Which country are u from if u don't mind me asking?

from Australia ✌

PS since updating I got a 60 in my first game and 130 in my second so may have to turn the batting difficulty level up a bit! lol

 

[Rumple43]

The AI slogging to maintain a 3.5 ish run rate, regardless of player mentality is grating in the extreme.

Agreed. Myself and a friend play the AI in co-op matches quite a bit. At the moment we are India bowling at the CPU as Pakistan. If we bowl 5 dot balls, you know that the AI is 100% playing a scoring shot at that 6th ball. Might be runs, or a wicket, but it's always an aggressive shot. Frustrating.

The ease of batting - even despite my edges, the majority of my wickets were the result of sloppiness. Defensive play has no risk whatsoever.

This is my biggest issue right now. When batting, there is simply no risk. In my experience, you could defend every ball and unless you got bored, you could probably bat out all 5 days. I'm with you, it's a lapse of concentration that gets me out. Perhaps that's the skill? Idk.

I'd say that 50%? 60%? 70%? of all test match dismissals come from a defensive shot. An edge to the keeper, slip, gully, or playing defensive and getting trapped LBW, or you get a bat pad to a spinner as the ball spits up, the list goes on. But on here, using defensive shot is as safe as it comes.

When you know you've always got that to fall back on, why wouldn't you just smash away in test cricket? Why do test batsmen leave the ball so much in real life? I'd imagine because playing any shot, even to defend, carries a risk. But in Ashes Cricket, that's been removed and it makes batting a lot less authentic in my opinion.

You only have to look at the India SA Test that just ended to show (albeit pretty extreme) that sometimes, batting just to not get out, forgetting about scoring runs, should still be very difficult. When you block anything that comes your way, that won't happen.

Not sure of a solution, or perhaps plenty of others have no issue and it's just me and my experience? But until batting carries genuine risk, and you lose wickets due to quality bowling that beat anything a batsman could do rather than getting the timing wrong on your 99th aggressive shot out of the 100, it's always gonna be an issue.

 

[Spoobir]

So I've played this game to a conclusion.

It's a 4 day first class match. 100 overs a day. No reviews. Legend AI, batting bowling and fielding hard. Everything default. Not sure of pitch other than grassy and hard. Weather fine/sunny.

AI 483 all out, after lunch on day 2. I make 403 all out similar point on day 3. AI bats till 20 minutes or so before lunch on the final day, declaring 309/6.

My target is 390 or 72 overs to survive. I reach 220-odd for 7 and draw the game to take the 2-match series 1-0.

So much of the game was enjoyable. Varied dismissal types (edges, bowleds, lbw). AI played noticeably more aggressively 2nd inns. A competitive and challenging AI performance. I think I had about 5 edged dismissals (me batting) in the match. A fantastic dismissal where I gloved a hook and the fielder ran and took it as a full length dive just above the grass, leaving me with the tail exposed and 10 overs to go...

But equally there is an accumulation of issues that takes the gloss of what should be a great match. (In fact 2 matches, I won the 1st match by 1 wicket on the final day thanks to an unbeaten 228 by Clive Rice.)

The AI slogging to maintain a 3.5 ish run rate, regardless of player mentality is grating in the extreme.
The lack of understanding of how the pitch should play - it was grassy and hard, but no cracka and fine weather and played like a road, is that fine - left me wondering if I was experiencing aberrant behaviour or not. (Was it pro batting or pro bowling conditions?)
The lack of the pitch having an effect at all - saving the game on day 4 felt no different to playing on day 2.
The ease of batting - even despite my edges, the majority of my wickets were the result of sloppiness. Defensive play has no risk whatsoever.
The game ends and no celebration cut scene for the series victory.

The game has a lot going for it but so many little things need addressing. The removal of features is frankly a disgrace. I'm not really a cut scene kind of guy but seriously, why was it removed? Why aren't pitches having an affect?

The post release experience doesn't give me much confidence these things will be improved, except by random chance.

Ps I will put up some more video of the match tomorrow.

What annoys me about the slogging is sometimes I'll bowl an actual bad ball like a rank one down leg and the AI won't even hit it off the square, then they'll smash a good ball for 4 or 6 on the last ball of the over. Infuriating.

Bowling at the death in the first innings of an ODI is also awful, because I assume their 'per-over target' gets increased in the last 5 overs they can just slog everything. No matter where you bowl, what your field is, whether they're a no. 11 with a batting skill of 4. They'll smash you for 100m sixes all over the park and there is nothing you can do about it. I'm fine with them attempting slog and sometimes pulling it off (especially if there is a proper set batsman in) but it really just feels like your chance of getting a wicket isn't even increased despite the fact they're mowing at everything.

 

[Nathaus]

You have obviously never played hockey. The ice changes throughout the period as snow builds up. It affects the movement of the puck a great deal. This is why the zamboni comes out between periods to clean it away. Also some rinks have harder ice than others which affects the speed of the game, stamina of players etc. There are many similar examples for football. Any time you play on an organic surface it has the potential for variables that will have an effect on play, in any sport.

Being from Australia, no I have obviously never played ice hockey, but I think you spectacularly missed the point. Do EA model this in to NHL? If they didn't would it really affect the enjoyment? While these changes may effect those on the ice, to a casual observer (such as myself) there is no obvious side effects, you might just notice the players missing more passes, etc. You can't miss the ball not carrying through to the keeper, or moving a foot off a crack, or swinging a foot in the air.

The other thing that strikes me is in football/hockey, the players are so well drilled that it's very uncommon to see them completely shank a pass off the toe or inside of their stick/boot/etc. A bit like in golf, there is no need to model in a player topping the ball, because it just doesn't happen at that level. In cricket, it's very common for a shot to hit the toe/handle/edge/miss all together. So in FIFA/Hockey you can simply code every pass to go near enough where it was intended, you don't need particularly complex physical collision detection and calculations, its mostly pre-programmed to send the ball in the direction you input. If you did that in cricket, you'd never get an edge.

There are so many more environmental variables than other sports. A football, a puck, a baseball, a golf ball, tennis ball are all uniform shapes that usually get changed out throughout a game anyway. A cricket ball is not and has a life of 80 overs or more. A football pitch, ice, hardcourt tennis courts are for the better part, uniform playing surfaces at the most elite level, a cricket pitch is not. All sports have nuances, yes, but few affect the core experience so much as in cricket. This is the point I was trying to make in my earlier post.

PS I'd love to see a crack open up in the middle of a hockey game...

 

[Langeveldt]

Yes the AI slogging to maintain a run rate, regardless of mentality, of 3.5 is incredibly poor in 2018. I don't know why we need this target per over, except in the latter overs of an ODI..

Was this present in the day one build @blockerdave ? Was it present when you guys were beta testing?

Maybe going forward (although I don't believe BA will touch this game again, let alone actually engage with the beta team), we could have different target run rates for different mentalities. (If we have to have that system)

 

[Langeveldt]

What annoys me about the slogging is sometimes I'll bowl an actual bad ball like a rank one down leg and the AI won't even hit it off the square, then they'll smash a good ball for 4 or 6 on the last ball of the over. Infuriating.

Bowling at the death in the first innings of an ODI is also awful, because I assume their 'per-over target' gets increased in the last 5 overs they can just slog everything. No matter where you bowl, what your field is, whether they're a no. 11 with a batting skill of 4. They'll smash you for 100m sixes all over the park and there is nothing you can do about it. I'm fine with them attempting slog and sometimes pulling it off (especially if there is a proper set batsman in) but it really just feels like your chance of getting a wicket isn't even increased despite the fact they're mowing at everything.

AI slogging is awful as well. There is no penalty for going big, either for the AI or for human batsmen.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Yes the AI slogging to maintain a run rate, regardless of mentality, of 3.5 is incredibly poor in 2018. I don't know why we need this target per over, except in the latter overs of an ODI..

Was this present in the day one build @blockerdave ? Was it present when you guys were beta testing?

Maybe going forward (although I don't believe BA will touch this game again, let alone actually engage with the beta team), we could have different target run rates for different mentalities. (If we have to have that system)

At this point they genuinely seem to be trying to finish AO Tennis and with a global release of that around French Open/Wimbledon (right?) that'll be another four months. I think we'll get a patch but I can't see it being anything as complex as the game needs.

Considering the amount of customisation I don't know why they don't just let us set the run rate we want the AI to play at.


@Spoobir I find bouncers are the best bet for the last ball because human or Ai, they don't seem hittable for 6 on this game.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

So I've played this game to a conclusion.

It's a 4 day first class match. 100 overs a day. No reviews. Legend AI, batting bowling and fielding hard. Everything default. Not sure of pitch other than grassy and hard. Weather fine/sunny.

AI 483 all out, after lunch on day 2. I make 403 all out similar point on day 3. AI bats till 20 minutes or so before lunch on the final day, declaring 309/6.

My target is 390 or 72 overs to survive. I reach 220-odd for 7 and draw the game to take the 2-match series 1-0.

So much of the game was enjoyable. Varied dismissal types (edges, bowleds, lbw). AI played noticeably more aggressively 2nd inns. A competitive and challenging AI performance. I think I had about 5 edged dismissals (me batting) in the match. A fantastic dismissal where I gloved a hook and the fielder ran and took it as a full length dive just above the grass, leaving me with the tail exposed and 10 overs to go...

But equally there is an accumulation of issues that takes the gloss of what should be a great match. (In fact 2 matches, I won the 1st match by 1 wicket on the final day thanks to an unbeaten 228 by Clive Rice.)

The AI slogging to maintain a 3.5 ish run rate, regardless of player mentality is grating in the extreme.
The lack of understanding of how the pitch should play - it was grassy and hard, but no cracka and fine weather and played like a road, is that fine - left me wondering if I was experiencing aberrant behaviour or not. (Was it pro batting or pro bowling conditions?)
The lack of the pitch having an effect at all - saving the game on day 4 felt no different to playing on day 2.
The ease of batting - even despite my edges, the majority of my wickets were the result of sloppiness. Defensive play has no risk whatsoever.
The game ends and no celebration cut scene for the series victory.

The game has a lot going for it but so many little things need addressing. The removal of features is frankly a disgrace. I'm not really a cut scene kind of guy but seriously, why was it removed? Why aren't pitches having an affect?

The post release experience doesn't give me much confidence these things will be improved, except by random chance.

Ps I will put up some more video of the match tomorrow.

Was it more aggressive from the AI in the second innings or were they just able to cream it to the boundary because their confidence is up? Or did it seem like they were setting a target?

I had a quick bat with a couple of batsmen with strength set at 10 and 15 and it was really good. Once you get to green confidence you can start hitting boundaries with normal shots but before that you have to rely on aggressive or lofted shots.

AI bowling is the biggest problem with this game. I think with a real effort to improve it could be better, but I'm not certain we will see the improvements to this game that are required, more just fixing what is there already.

If the speed gun is to be believed they consistently bowl too slow - like four or five balls of a Fast Medium bowlers over is sub 80mph. Just make it simple - Medium pacers with bowling speed range of 65-74mph (0 skill = 65, 100 skill = 74). Add a Medium-Fast bowling option - have one bowling style come off a short run up and the other two off Fast Medium run ups. It makes no sense to me why medium-fast bowlers aren't an option. Have bowling speed range 75-82. Then Fast Medium 83-88 and Fast bowlers range from 89 to 100.

The mentalities need to be changed completely or at least be more realistic or effective. Perhaps it would be useful to keep the mentality and add a style in the bowling skill section of the academy. Or, if the delivery types are as meaningless as the shot types, then use them differently. Have them be a selection box to determine what deliveries a bowler has in their skill set. So for a seamer you choose:

• 'Stock Ball': you get options for Out Swing, In Swing, Seam. - which will determine the ball they ball four or five times an over. Maybe a higher swing skill also means they are better as swinging it the other way, so some bowlers have no problem bowling in and out swing, other might be weaker when attempting the one that isn't their stock. Also make it that the stock delivery is consistent for left and right handers, not so they can bowl great out swing to both right and left.
• 'Natural length': 'Full, Good, Short' - which will determine the length they most frequently bowl or at least the range they look for
• 'Change up': Slower Ball, Cutter, Bouncer, Yorker (maybe a 'tick box' to determine which they are good at)*
• 'Style': Conservative - a bowler who aims for a consistent line and length. Precise - a bowler who varies line and length a little. Aggressive - a bowler who targets the stumps. Brute - a bowler who targets the batsman - short stuff. Balanced - a bowler who switches mentality depending on the state of the ball or match situation, so they might come in and bowl a good length early in an innings or when the ball is still new but then look to target the stumps or try short stuff later.

For spinners remove the stock ball - assume they will always bowl and off spinner or leg spinner first and foremost. Change that to a style or mentality option. Conservative - a bowler who perhaps bowls 1 variation per over and rarely changes the line and length. Precise - a bowler who uses flight and bounce to vary their stock delivery and throws in one or two variations per over depending on confidence. Aggressive - one who just from the off starts targeting the stumps through variation and changes in flight and bounce but still primarily focuses on the stock delivery. Then just let us choose Variation 1, Variation 2 and Variation 3 or leave them empty.*

Primarily the variation comes from changes in line, length, flight, bounce - not just have off spinners sending down doosras and top spinners all day with an off spin as a variation.

*Have this information be something that impacts the human player too when using bowlers - allow us to bring up the information on screen in matches to see which ball we should try as a change up and if we choose to bowl a doosra with a bowler that can't bowl one then just have the AI smash it until we learn our lesson. Or if you bowl too frequently outside a bowlers natural length, before they are confident, there is a reduction in accuracy.

 

[ndschan]

So I've played this game to a conclusion.

Why aren't pitches having an affect?

The post release experience doesn't give me much confidence these things will be improved, except by random chance.

Ps I will put up some more video of the match tomorrow.

I think to your pitch point I'd agree the wear mechanics is very slow. I usually start on Uneven and Light Cracks. I also use gameplay modifiers to make gameplay according to the pitch e.g. increasing Pitch Friction and Swing for green tracks. I've had great matches with a different response on different pitches and different grounds.

Also there was a discussion about edges on defensive shots. I personally believe it's well balanced in the game. In real life Batsmen edge while playing defensive shots is because they are stuck on the crease and push at the ball. I am sure if we are using precision shots we'd get those defensive edges. Having said that, I'd like the game to have poor footwork mechanics incorporated in their graphics, in the next iteration

 

[Sweppy12]

Was it more aggressive from the AI in the second innings or were they just able to cream it to the boundary because their confidence is up? Or did it seem like they were setting a target?

I had a quick bat with a couple of batsmen with strength set at 10 and 15 and it was really good. Once you get to green confidence you can start hitting boundaries with normal shots but before that you have to rely on aggressive or lofted shots.

AI bowling is the biggest problem with this game. I think with a real effort to improve it could be better, but I'm not certain we will see the improvements to this game that are required, more just fixing what is there already.

If the speed gun is to be believed they consistently bowl too slow - like four or five balls of a Fast Medium bowlers over is sub 80mph. Just make it simple - Medium pacers with bowling speed range of 65-74mph (0 skill = 65, 100 skill = 74). Add a Medium-Fast bowling option - have one bowling style come off a short run up and the other two off Fast Medium run ups. It makes no sense to me why medium-fast bowlers aren't an option. Have bowling speed range 75-82. Then Fast Medium 83-88 and Fast bowlers range from 89 to 100.

The mentalities need to be changed completely or at least be more realistic or effective. Perhaps it would be useful to keep the mentality and add a style in the bowling skill section of the academy. Or, if the delivery types are as meaningless as the shot types, then use them differently. Have them be a selection box to determine what deliveries a bowler has in their skill set. So for a seamer you choose:

• 'Stock Ball': you get options for Out Swing, In Swing, Seam. - which will determine the ball they ball four or five times an over. Maybe a higher swing skill also means they are better as swinging it the other way, so some bowlers have no problem bowling in and out swing, other might be weaker when attempting the one that isn't their stock. Also make it that the stock delivery is consistent for left and right handers, not so they can bowl great out swing to both right and left.
• 'Natural length': 'Full, Good, Short' - which will determine the length they most frequently bowl or at least the range they look for
• 'Change up': Slower Ball, Cutter, Bouncer, Yorker (maybe a 'tick box' to determine which they are good at)*
• 'Style': Conservative - a bowler who aims for a consistent line and length. Precise - a bowler who varies line and length a little. Aggressive - a bowler who targets the stumps. Brute - a bowler who targets the batsman - short stuff. Balanced - a bowler who switches mentality depending on the state of the ball or match situation, so they might come in and bowl a good length early in an innings or when the ball is still new but then look to target the stumps or try short stuff later.

For spinners remove the stock ball - assume they will always bowl and off spinner or leg spinner first and foremost. Change that to a style or mentality option. Conservative - a bowler who perhaps bowls 1 variation per over and rarely changes the line and length. Precise - a bowler who uses flight and bounce to vary their stock delivery and throws in one or two variations per over depending on confidence. Aggressive - one who just from the off starts targeting the stumps through variation and changes in flight and bounce but still primarily focuses on the stock delivery. Then just let us choose Variation 1, Variation 2 and Variation 3 or leave them empty.*

Primarily the variation comes from changes in line, length, flight, bounce - not just have off spinners sending down doosras and top spinners all day with an off spin as a variation.

*Have this information be something that impacts the human player too when using bowlers - allow us to bring up the information on screen in matches to see which ball we should try as a change up and if we choose to bowl a doosra with a bowler that can't bowl one then just have the AI smash it until we learn our lesson. Or if you bowl too frequently outside a bowlers natural length, before they are confident, there is a reduction in accuracy.

regarding the spin stuff, I hate facing Moeen Ali and receiving 3 or 4 doosras an over... You can't even bowl a proper doosra without throwing it anyways

 

[blockerdave]

This, I've never seen. Most of the time the fielders seem unwilling to make an effort. Certainly looking forward to seeing that catch in your highlights package. The rest of your assessment seems fair. There is much still to like about the game but it needs some proper attention to fix some of the issues, remove some of the clunkiness and add some much needed polish.

I had not seen anything quite like it before either. It was a type of one where before I'd only seen them do that awful bend down and one-handed scoop. It looked great and I got a really nice replay of it. I might upload that one in isolation.

 

[blockerdave]

regarding the spin stuff, I hate facing Moeen Ali and receiving 3 or 4 doosras an over... You can't even bowl a proper doosra without throwing it anyways

I've noticed while bowling with Peter Kirsten, some of his top spinners span like huge doosras. I think only when used with the fast trigger, or maybe only with ideal input. Not sure - it wasn't every one and I didn't see a definite pattern. This might be part of the issue - maybe the AI isn't selecting a doosra but the top spinner and it's turning wrong.