Ashes debate thread.

[andrew_nixon]

Interesting how you ignore my little Read comment though.

 

[MUFC1987]

Ah, but he hasn't maintained his average. Since Panesar made his debut, in all first class cricket, Panesar averages 30.52. In the same time period, Giles averages 34.096. Giles has got worse since the Pakistan tour of 2000, which was the peak of his career, and the one time he was a match-winning bowler at test level.

By the way, weren't Northamptonshire docked points for having a dodgy pitch a year or two ago?

Incidently, Chris Read scored 150 last week against Pakistan, with Pakistan having a stronger attack. All this with pressure on him to try and get his place in the test side back.

I'd hardly call a half fit Asif a stronger attack. Was this not after England were already in a strong position, so he took advantage of a tired bowling attack, who lets face it, were never going to be up for a friendly in the same way that they are in a test. Hence Salman Butt bowling 20 overs in the second innings.

 

[andrew_nixon]

By the way, weren't Northamptonshire docked points for having a dodgy pitch a year or two ago?

Yes. In 2003. Do you want me to knock that match of Panesar's average? I'd be delighted to, as it would improve it. Not that it has anything to do with the discussion in hand.

 

[Kev]

Interesting how you ignore my little Read comment though.

Maybe people just get used to reading them and they fade into the subconcious.

You say Read scored 150, which he did, but as I said earlier it doesnt really have much relevance. Pakistan had long since cottoned on the the fact England were out to ruin the match and just keep Pakistan bowling and had long since stopped trying to win (or even really try) bowling spinners for most of the time to save their pace bowlers. Pretty much anyone who is half decent would have got a decent score once they got their eye in, even Broad got 50 (ish) coming in as the last man. I forget how much and frankly I cant be bothered to check, the sooner I can forget that match the better, it was a total waste of 4 days of my life.

 

[andrew_nixon]

I'd hardly call a half fit Asif a stronger attack. Was this not after England were already in a strong position, so he took advantage of a tired bowling attack, who lets face it, were never going to be up for a friendly in the same way that they are in a test. Hence Salman Butt bowling 20 overs in the second innings.

I guess you're right. 18 runs before getting out in the exact same way you nearly always get out is a much better innings than an unbeaten 150.

 

[MUFC1987]

Yes. In 2003. Do you want me to knock that match of Panesar's average? I'd be delighted to, as it would improve it. Not that it has anything to do with the discussion in hand.

My point in asking is that surely this shows that Northants play to their strengths by preparing pitches that will turn, to help out the likes of Brown and Panesar.

 

[andrew_nixon]

My point in asking is that surely this shows that Northants play to their strengths by preparing pitches that will turn, to help out the likes of Brown and Panesar.

Maybe, except Panesar has time and time again shown himself to be much more effective on non-turning tracks than Giles, which makes it a moot point.

 

[evertonfan]

My point in asking is that surely this shows that Northants play to their strengths by preparing pitches that will turn, to help out the likes of Brown and Panesar.

Are you implying that we should dumb down Panesar's performances because he plays on tailor made pitches? Sri Lanka do that for Murali all the time.

And my bus driver 'joke' wasn't a joke; that really is his name.

 

[MUFC1987]

Maybe, except Panesar has time and time again shown himself to be much more effective on non-turning tracks than Giles, which makes it a moot point.

Where did this time and time again come from? Has he taken wickets in places such as the West Indies, New Zealand and South Africa, which I've missed or something?

Are you implying that we should dumb down Panesar's performances because he plays on tailor made pitches? Sri Lanka do that for Murali all the time.

And my bus driver 'joke' wasn't a joke; that really is his name.

I'm saying that it has an affect yes. Look at Vaughan, his Test average is better than his First Class one due in no uncertain terms to the conditions of the pitch there.

On the second part about your bus driver, give yourself a biscuit.

 

[andrew_nixon]

Where did this time and time again come from? Has he taken wickets in places such as the West Indies, New Zealand and South Africa, which I've missed or something?

How about averageing 21 against top players of spin on eaely season English wickets? I guess that's a pretty crap performance in your book, considering you seem to think that Gerraint Jones is batting well.

Giles in those countries you mentioned.

New Zealand: 39.33, pretty poor.
South Africa: 40.81, pretty poor
West Indies: 68.50, awful

 

[evertonfan]

Where did this time and time again come from? Has he taken wickets in places such as the West Indies, New Zealand and South Africa, which I've missed or something?


I'm saying that it has an affect yes. Look at Vaughan, his Test average is better than his First Class one due in no uncertain terms to the conditions of the pitch there.

On the second part about your bus driver, give yourself a biscuit.

Interesting how Giles failed to take wickets in all of those places.

Also, i'm more of a sweets man myslef, although I do enjoy the taste of a good tea-drenched digestive.

 

[MUFC1987]

How about averageing 21 against top players of spin on eaely season English wickets? I guess that's a pretty crap performance in your book, considering you seem to think that Gerraint Jones is batting well.

Giles in those countries you mentioned.

New Zealand: 39.33, pretty poor.
South Africa: 40.81, pretty poor
West Indies: 68.50, awful

Again, who are these top players of spin? Or are you pedaling more rubbish to prove a point?

I wasn't comparing Giles in this instance by the way, just questioning when Panesar performed on wickets that don't suit spin. Incidently, did you see how much Giles averages with the bat in those coutries? Team Player.

Interesting how Giles failed to take wickets in all of those places.

Also, i'm more of a sweets man myslef, although I do enjoy the taste of a good tea-drenched digestive.

Can you come up with something of your own? Sorry, but I'm bored of you now.

 

[evertonfan]

Again, who are these top players of spin? Or are you pedaling more rubbish to prove a point?

I wasn't comparing Giles in this instance by the way, just questioning when Panesar performed on wickets that don't suit spin. Incidently, did you see how much Giles averages with the bat in those coutries? Team Player.


Can you come up with something of your own? Sorry, but I'm bored of you now.

I'll stop stealing Pulp Fiction lines if you realise the frailities of Giles and Jones.

Also, Andrew and I both posted at 4:18 pm, so in fact, I didn't steal anything, but I suppose you didn't bother looking at that did you?

 

[andrew_nixon]

Again, who are these top players of spin? Or are you pedaling more rubbish to prove a point?

I wasn't comparing Giles in this instance by the way, just questioning when Panesar performed on wickets that don't suit spin. Incidently, did you see how much Giles averages with the bat in those coutries? Team Player.

Yeah, I suppose players who play on turning wickets at home every match and who face Murali in the nets almost every single net session are going to be rubbish at playing spin.

As for Giles batting average in those countries, he batted fine in West Indies and South Africa, but only averaged 13 in New Zealand.

But he's a BOWLER NOT A BATSMAN AND PERFORMED POORLY THERE WITH THE BALL!!!!

 

[MUFC1987]

Also, Andrew and I both posted at 4:18 pm, so in fact, I didn't steal anything, but I suppose you didn't bother looking at that did you?

No.

Yeah, I suppose players who play on turning wickets at home every match and who face Murali in the nets almost every single net session are going to be rubbish at playing spin.

As for Giles batting average in those countries, he batted fine in West Indies and South Africa, but only averaged 13 in New Zealand.

But he's a BOWLER NOT A BATSMAN AND PERFORMED POORLY THERE WITH THE BALL!!!!

Again, it was one 5 wicket haul, that's what your basing this on, that's hardly foolproof is it?

I've been through the batting thing already today, I don't have the patience to do it again.