Dhoni Vs KP ; ODIs

Who is the better ODI player?


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What a pathetic attempt to dismiss the talent and acchievements of the great Kevin Pietersen. This thread clearly illustrates a fear by an Indian supporter who is scared that one day Pietersen will overtake Tendulkar's mantle as the greatest ODI batsman of alltime. Although, Tendulkar's got nothing on Viv Richards.

Not particularly. If we wish to talk about motives for a second, the motive of wishing to compare Dhoni to Pietersen will likely be simply to raise that India's best ODI batsman is superiors to England's.

Out of sociology and on to the thread topic at hand. Earlier, I took the cop out approach but I'll look to simplify for the thread topic and look at who is the more effective batsman.

Starting point is to eliminate averages from runs scored against any non country (World XI, Africa XI, etc), any non Test playing nation, Bangladesh and Zimbabwe. These runs will be seen as moot from here on in my analysis.

Dhoni: 45.82
Pietersen: 48.29

However, the situation becomes one of current form as Dhoni's recent form has been superb and Pietersen's merely very good. In 2008, Dhoni had 988 runs at 52.00 (as well as three fifties in 2009 in five innings) whereas Pietersen had 658 runs at 43.86. However, this is not sufficient justification to say that Dhoni is a better batsman, merely that he is in better form. Dhoni has shown weakness in Africa, Europe and West Indies whereas Pietersen has solid form in each continent except Oceania, which is still adequate (265 runs at 33.12). Pietersen is clearly the more rounded batsman for dealing with difficult conditions, the best test of a batsman. Moreover, Dhoni's recent form in 2008 and 2009 has come mostly in Asian conditions. Not exclusively flat pitches, but subcontinental pitches nonetheless. Now, Dhoni has succeeded in Australia and he may have really turned the corner in the past year with the captaincy, but it has not been fully proven as of yet.

The point about match winning ability is an extremely intriguing one. Pietersen has seven ODI centuries whereas Dhoni has just two against top quality sides. In wins, Pietersen averages 83.33 (strike rate of 93.28) compared to Dhoni's 70.32 (strike rate 99.04). However, Dhoni has played in 54 wins compared to Pietersen's 21, a far superior percentage of 52% (wins/innings x 100) compared to Pietersen's 30%. Many other factors play into this particular statistic, but still interesting.

Dhoni is one of the all time great finishers, and tremendously versatile in moving through the order, but for the simplication needed to provide an outright winner, this must be ignored for obvious reasons (Pietersen is not a finisher, only bats in one or two spots, etc). But my call is that Pietersen has proven himself the more effective run scorer. Pietersen scores all over the world and is only hindered slightly by conditions whereas it is much moreso for Dhoni. Dhoni is in better form, but I have shown that not too relevant. Dhoni has played many more ODIs which helps his credentials somewhat but not entirely.
 
Pietersen is the better batsman, but not as flexible. Dhoni is still outstanding and can bat up and down the order. Take your pick.
 
The reason Pietersen's record in England wins isn't as great is because Pietersen only performs against quality opposition. Quality opposition motivates Pietersen. Usually when England play quality opposition, they lose because the rest of the team isn't good enough. The rest of England's batting lineup is fairly weak and mainly contribute against weaker opposition which England is expected to defeat. They mainly perform against the not so strong teams as a unit because that's when they genuielly peak. Pietersen's an ego player and generally isn't as motivated against the weaker teams.
 
I think Ben has taken a quest to re-start all the dead threads in this forum. :p

Anyway, back to the topic, or else Mr Tommy Baker of PC will again label me "a guy who more often than not posts off topic things. :p An extremely stupid attempt to make you guys laugh. :p

Look, I've said it earlier and I'm saying it again- it is really really really really unfair to compare MSD with KP. MSD is a no 7 batsman whereas KP is a no 3/4 batsman. What's common in them that we are comparing these two players? It's like comparing hot water with ice-cream soda. They are two totally different batsmen. This is ridiculous. No wonder MSD's test career average is lower than KP's. He's a no 7 batsman. How often does he get a chance to bat? And in ODI's in spite of being a no 7 batsman his average is equal to KP's. This is a great thing. And Ben, I think you're being a bit too rude on Indian players. Comparing KP with Sachin is really insane. KP is really good- but him being no 1 ODI batsman of alltime..........way too much.
 
LOL, comparing Sachin to Pietersen... INSANE?! That's hilarious. Pietersen is a potential all-time great of the game. I hope the poms jump all over you for saying something so drastic.
 
If you fast forward 10 years, no one will be calling the Sachin and KP comparison insane. It will be like the Ponting vs Tendulkar comparison, which is fair and only the die hard Sachin fans are to jealous to admit it.
 
Both great players. But ask yourself this question, who would you rather have in your side? KP every time. :cool:
 
Both great players. But ask yourself this question, who would you rather have in your side? KP every time. :cool:

Certainly not. Dhoni in Asian conditions, he is a proficient wicket keeper and a good captain as well as being tremendously versatile in shifting throughout the batting order.
 
Certainly not. Dhoni in Asian conditions, he is a proficient wicket keeper and a good captain as well as being tremendously versatile in shifting throughout the batting order.

There are other attacking wicketkeeper batsmen around though, but personally when making a World ODI team KP is the first name I put down, seriously. With Gilly and Haydos gone KP is first down.
 
Anyway, back to the topic, or else Mr Tommy Baker of PC will again label me "a guy who more often than not posts off topic things. :p An extremely stupid attempt to make you guys laugh. :p

Don't you drag me into this. Now Ben is back, I don't have to worry about you guys and your posting techniques ;)
 
There are other attacking wicketkeeper batsmen around though, but personally when making a World ODI team KP is the first name I put down, seriously. With Gilly and Haydos gone KP is first down.

There is McCullum, but after that, you get people paling in comparison to Dhoni with the bat or with the gloves. This is something hard to statistically quantify, but he is an expert at bringing India home or weathering a tough situation at the top or middle of the order and playing accordingly to the situation. He is an extremely valuable player in ODI cricket as a result. Someone like McCullum is at his best opening and Pietersen at four or five whereas Dhoni seems to command a strong record from 3-7.
 
It will be like the Ponting vs Tendulkar comparison, which is fair and only the die hard Sachin fans are to jealous to admit it.

Well, apart from the no. of centuries that Tendulkar has I think Ponting is ahead on stats all round, isn't he? In fact Ponting will in all probability over take Sachin's no. of centuries as well. So actually Ponting should theoretically be a greater cricketer than Sachin. But is he? And if not, why so?
 
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