England

[Themer]

Who the hell let Hilditch get into our selecting panel? To say I'm chuffed off is an understatement.

 

[Sureshot]

I included Yardy as "bits n pieces" because he bats so low and not that much. He does tend to bowl more than four overs, but not always his full 10 and in my book anyone who bowls five overs and doesn't get bowled out very often, which he does, is bits n pieces. Bresnan too, he doesn't really have a strong suit in either discipline (IMHO) despite a decent Ashes.

Tredwell may well bowl more because of where the World Cup is, but for me he's bits n pieces as well. Broad as well, although he bowls well in ODIs, still isn't batting to all-rounder strength but playing as an all-rounder, so perhaps in that instance he's just being used in the wrong role/bat too high

How is Broad bits n pieces in ODIs? He's our best wicket taker. Surely the term applies to their actual role within the team and not your perceived opinion of their ability. Bresnan will be bowling most of his overs, he's in the side to bowl, likewise with Yardy and Broad. Just because they don't always bowl out due to them having off-days or Strauss wanting to use KP, Colly, etc, doesn't mean they are bits n pieces. The term was linked with the team when we were playing the likes of McGrath weren't good enough to bat 5 and would be a 6th/7th bowler (ah, the days of Ricki Clarke and Vaughan bowling overs). Just because Bresnan isn't good enough, doesn't make him bits n pieces.

I see it with Wright, but to claim Broad is bits n pieces if just fanciful.

 

[Themer]

Some may disagree, but I like that team personally.

I'd go for the exact same squad but pick Shahzad over Tremlett regardless of who goes better in the rest of this series. I'd do that because I think that Shahzad's style of bowling is a lot more conductive in those situations in comparison to Tremlett who could end up pretty hittable in the later overs on slow low pitches.

Seething that they've dropped Davies let alone that his replacement is going to be Prior and not Kieswetter who's actually played an ODI in the last 10 months. More to the point where are they going to play Prior, opening bat? The place where he's categorically failed at both scoring quickly and scoring significant runs.

His inclusion completely messes up England's balance as he won't do the job that Davies or Kieswetter could have done. Prats.

 

[Dipak]

I wanted to see Davies in the squad there.
Also what the overrated Yardy and Wright doing. they add nothing to the team

 

[King Pietersen]

We need 2 spinners, and Yardy's done a good job. He picks up handy wickets, but more importantly, keeps it tight. He's more than good enough to bat 7, but he just needs a more accomplished number 6 ahead of him to take the pressure off. With Wright at 6 and Yardy at 7 the batting looks incredibly fragile. That's why I'd like Ravi at 6, or maybe even Colly down at 6, in as a finisher. Collingwood plays his best cricket when he's in a free spirited, aggressive mood, and batting him at 6 would allow him to play like that. Given the squad we've been stuck with, my XI would be:

Strauss
Prior
Bell
Pietersen
Morgan
Collingwood
Yardy
Bresnan
Broad
Swann
Anderson

It's not perfect, but I think it could definitely work. The T20 squad on paper wasn't perfect. Lumb and Kieswetter didn't really click, Wright wasn't needed and Sidebottom probably shouldn't have been there, but we still won the thing, and performed exceptionally. With Andy Flower and his coaching team at the helm I'm confident we can put on a good show, and I'm confident we can win the thing. Be amazing to pull off World T20, Ashes and World Cup victories in the space of 18 months.

 

[War]

All i can say is hope Prior new found confidence with the bat translates to the ODI format now after all those years where he failed as an ODI opener.

I wont scream since Flower & Strauss deserve the benefit of the doubt after the last 18 months of success.

 

[Sureshot]

That almost sounded optimistic

 

[MUFC1987]

Matt Prior? Opening? Because he suits the sub-continent? The place where you need to score runs early before it turns square? What have we done with the real Andy Flower?

This is quite simply bizarre. It would be bad enough if he wasn't replacing a guy averaging 40, who apparently looked out of form in the first ODI. Perhaps that's because he's been sat on his backside for most of the last 3 months, watching the Test side? What has Davies done wrong? I may agree that he's not our best Keeper/batsman in this form of the game, but he's in the team and performing, you can't drop that.

Prior is comfortably our best Test 'keeper, but ODIs, not a chance. It seems we've forgotten why we won the T20 WC. Which was because we picked specialists, like Lumb, like Yardy, like Kieswetter, rather than just shoe-horning our Test players in. Yet now, we have Prior, opening. Dear God.

 

[Haarithan]

Pissed off with prior's selection . The guy averages 25 in ODIs and a horrible 17 in Sub continent . Well done Geoff Miller

 

[Owzat]

How is Broad bits n pieces in ODIs? He's our best wicket taker. Surely the term applies to their actual role within the team and not your perceived opinion of their ability. Bresnan will be bowling most of his overs, he's in the side to bowl, likewise with Yardy and Broad. Just because they don't always bowl out due to them having off-days or Strauss wanting to use KP, Colly, etc, doesn't mean they are bits n pieces. The term was linked with the team when we were playing the likes of McGrath weren't good enough to bat 5 and would be a 6th/7th bowler (ah, the days of Ricki Clarke and Vaughan bowling overs). Just because Bresnan isn't good enough, doesn't make him bits n pieces.

I see it with Wright, but to claim Broad is bits n pieces if just fanciful.

Nicely done for ignoring the very last part of my post

still isn't batting to all-rounder strength but playing as an all-rounder, so perhaps in that instance he's just being used in the wrong role/bat too high

As for whether Bresnan is bits n pieces or "not good enough", well where do you draw that line?!?! Is Collingwood not a good all-rounder or not an all-rounder at all? Therein is the implication that his bowling "isn't good enough".

You can argue strictly speaking there are no bits n pieces cricketers, they simply aren't good enough at what they're in the side to do - not a good enough batsman, all-rounder or bowler. For me bits n pieces is where they bat a bit, bowl a bit, but can't or SHOULDN'T really hold a place down for their batting or bowling. I guess I use it more liberally than most because it riles me a player is in the side who isn't a good bowler, but can bat so gets in (Bresnan), or isn't a good batsman, but can bowl, so gets in (Wright) or in Yardy's case is a tidy bowler but not wicket taking bowler, can bat a bit, and gets in.

So here's the crunch, how many of Wright, Yardy and Bresnan SHOULD get in on batting or bowling alone? I did say Broad was batting too high, but you chose to ignore it or didn't see it, whichever isn't excusable as you either didn't read my post or didn't read it properly.

Tredwell is yet to define himself, may do well because of where the World Cup is being held, but would he be picked if he couldn't bat a bit? Perhaps if I change the statement to playing players who aren't all-rounders as all-rounders would you accept that what I was saying about bits n pieces is correct? While Broad does cut it in ODIs as a bowler, he will bat 1-2 places higher than he should, my point I've made if not here then elsewhere about lacking a number seven is being addressed badly by picking lots of "can bat"s and that isn't a good solution in ODIs.

----------

Matt Prior? Opening? Because he suits the sub-continent? The place where you need to score runs early before it turns square? What have we done with the real Andy Flower?

It's a sudden u-turn that does my head in, based on what exactly are they surmising Prior has been in good form - TESTS, that's what! Different format, different task and he's not been OPENING in Tests, that's crazy decisions if ever there were. Is he now going to open for the last six ODIs and what happens if that is disastrous? Personally I would keep the keeper for the late onslaught, can we not find a capable batsman who can attack the new ball?!?! This obsession we've had with pinch-hitting goes back to the 1992 World Cup if I'm not mistaken, our best attacking opener for my money was Nick Knight in that period and he was a, well, proper opener

Prior is comfortably our best Test 'keeper, but ODIs, not a chance. It seems we've forgotten why we won the T20 WC. Which was because we picked specialists, like Lumb, like Yardy, like Kieswetter, rather than just shoe-horning our Test players in. Yet now, we have Prior, opening. Dear God.

I think the worst thing about T20s is it has brought players who might otherwise not have got anywhere near the England side into it and the line between good enough has moved and been changed to good enough for one dayers. Would the likes of Wright and Yardy have got anywhere near the England side before T20s? And I don't just mean international T20s, I mean all T20. More players who might not have bowled much in one dayers suddenly bowl a lot more and come to prominence, but in a competition where the quality of bowling and batting is not the very best. Would "list A" averages of 23.78 and 39.05 in batting and bowling respectively get you in the England ODI side of old?

While defendants of Wright might suggest he has improved, I think he is another beneficiary of the advent of T20.

Bresnan may be the biggest beneficiary, that and a weak enough domestic circuit plus his being able to bat and England having no Flintoff.

 

[Sureshot]

As for whether Bresnan is bits n pieces or "not good enough", well where do you draw that line?!?! Is Collingwood not a good all-rounder or not an all-rounder at all? Therein is the implication that his bowling "isn't good enough".

If Collingwood is in form then he's an all-rounder, but he's not got the Flintoff factor.

You can argue strictly speaking there are no bits n pieces cricketers, they simply aren't good enough at what they're in the side to do - not a good enough batsman, all-rounder or bowler. For me bits n pieces is where they bat a bit, bowl a bit, but can't or SHOULDN'T really hold a place down for their batting or bowling. I guess I use it more liberally than most because it riles me a player is in the side who isn't a good bowler, but can bat so gets in (Bresnan), or isn't a good batsman, but can bowl, so gets in (Wright) or in Yardy's case is a tidy bowler but not wicket taking bowler, can bat a bit, and gets in.

Balance has to be considered. Having 4 Jimmy Anderson's would be good for the bowling side and the fielding side, but for the batting side, it doesn't work. Yardy won't ever be a frontline spinner, but he bowls well in partnership with Swann. As much as I like Wright, I don't think he should be in the side, he hasn't done enough (though I don't think he's been utilised very well) and there are better options, like Ravi.

Bresnan is frustrating. There's talent there (we should remember he is still only 25), but he's too inconsistent. Broad should replace him for the WC, with Shahzad and Anderson supporting him.

So here's the crunch, how many of Wright, Yardy and Bresnan SHOULD get in on batting or bowling alone? I did say Broad was batting too high, but you chose to ignore it or didn't see it, whichever isn't excusable as you either didn't read my post or didn't read it properly.

I'd probably say none of them, but you have to consider the balance of the side. Cricket is much more than a 1-skill sport. As for Broad, I didn't see that, he can bat 8 in all forms.

Tredwell is yet to define himself, may do well because of where the World Cup is being held, but would he be picked if he couldn't bat a bit?

Possibly not, but you have to consider the 8-11 spots. You couldn't have 4 Chris Martin's Tredwell has a chance in the next 4 ODIs and I will be really interested to see how he goes.

Perhaps if I change the statement to playing players who aren't all-rounders as all-rounders would you accept that what I was saying about bits n pieces is correct?

Spot on. The problem is, we're trying to replace Flintoff, he's being used as the standard, when really he should be used as the exception.

While Broad does cut it in ODIs as a bowler, he will bat 1-2 places higher than he should, my point I've made if not here then elsewhere about lacking a number seven is being addressed badly by picking lots of "can bat"s and that isn't a good solution in ODIs.

It's a sudden u-turn that does my head in, based on what exactly are they surmising Prior has been in good form - TESTS, that's what! Different format, different task and he's not been OPENING in Tests, that's crazy decisions if ever there were. Is he now going to open for the last six ODIs and what happens if that is disastrous? Personally I would keep the keeper for the late onslaught, can we not find a capable batsman who can attack the new ball?!?! This obsession we've had with pinch-hitting goes back to the 1992 World Cup if I'm not mistaken, our best attacking opener for my money was Nick Knight in that period and he was a, well, proper opener

I think you have to back the selectors, they've done a great job in our two big successes over the last year. I think England will play around a bit, maybe open with Trott, he does open for Warks (and not Bell, as I confused before). I also know that Prior has matured a lot, he got a lot of starts in ODIs when he was playing, he just didn't have quite the maturity to say, "I've got a start, now lets kick on and get big runs." It's hardly surprising I'm backing Prior, but he is the best keeper-batsman in the country, and as I've said before, I don't see why we have to have the keeper opening when we could have someone like Trott open, then Prior in at 6, with Morgan 5, or the other way around. Prior "fits" in to the team better than Davies or Kieswetter though, but I do think it's a bit harsh on Davies.

I've said it before, I see Rashid being the 2nd spinner in a couple of years to Swann, he'd be good in the 7 slot. More expansive game than Yardy.

 

[cricketea]

England look a really good unit going into the world cup after a long time, they have settled batting line up, Quality pace bowlers and a world class spinner.

Squad Andrew Strauss (Middlesex, capt), James Adams (Hampshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Ian Bell (Warwickshire), Ravi Bopara (Essex), Tim Bresnan (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Paul Collingwood (Durham), Alastair Cook (Essex), Steven Davies (Surrey), Jade Dernbach (Surrey), Steven Finn (Middlesex), James Hildreth (Somerset), Craig Kieswetter (Somerset), Michael Lumb (Hampshire), Eoin Morgan (Middlesex), Samit Patel (Nottinghamshire), Kevin Pietersen (Surrey), Liam Plunkett (Durham), Matt Prior (Sussex), Adil Rashid (Yorkshire), Ajmal Shahzad (Yorkshire), Darren Stevens (Kent), Graeme Swann (Nottinghamshire), James Tredwell (Kent), Chris Tremlett (Surrey), Jonathan Trott (Warwickshire), Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Luke Wright (Sussex), Michael Yardy (Sussex)

Probable 15 should be:

Andrew Strauss*
Steven Davies?
Jonathan Trott
Kevin Pieterson
Ian Bell
Paul Collingwood
Eoin Morgan
Tim Bresnan
Greame Swann
Stuart Broad
James Anderson

Chris Woakes,Ajmal Shahzad,Michael Yardy,Kieswetter(Reserve keeper)

I seriously hope Luke Wright isn't selected as he is quite over rated and has never really contributed enough with bat or ball.

Shocked about the news of Prior being picked over Davies, it is one thing picking him but why did they fudge the timing and announcement so badly? Davies has been badly burnt by this whole saga

 

[Aislabie]

I was thinking, we're probably going to end up with a side with a 5/6/7/8 looking like Collingwood - Wright - Bresnan - Yardy, which is crap.

 

[Ayub 95]

After Prior's dismal run so far opening the team could be like this:

Strauss (C)
Bell
KP
Prior +
Collingwood
Morgan
Yardy
Bresnan
Swann
Broad/Shahzad
Anderson

 

[The Spin]

Bit of self-promotion here, but this was my take on the whole wicketkeeping scenario from The Planetcricket View. Certainly I seem to come down on the same side as most of you - Prior shouldn't have been picked.

PlanetCricket ? Prior vs Davies: The right call?