Harbhajan Singh - most overrated Indian Spinner?

[harishankar]

Apart from the one Test series in 2001 where he really spun India to victory against Australia, Harbhajan Singh has by far been the biggest disappointment for Indian cricket, not being able to be a consistent match winner on most overseas tours and these days even failing to deliver on the tracks he prefers at home in India.

Personally I think his career has spoilt the chances of many a talented spinner (not least Murali Karthik) who deserved better than they have got.

It's my belief that Harbhajan didn't deserve so many chances to make a comeback to the Test team. Even Ramesh Powar is a better off-spinner than Harbhajan and Powar struggles to make it to the Test team (we cannot cite Powar's lack of fielding ability as the reason for being left out because there are half a dozen other Indian players who are regulars in the test team who cannot field for nuts)

So why do you think Bhajji has got so many opportunities to revive his career while others like Murali Karthik have never been allowed a longer run in Test cricket?

I also think one reason why India couldn't win 2-0 against Pakistan in the just concluded Indian Oil Series is because of Bhajji's lack of form and his inability to pick up wickets on these slow low pitches.

NOTE: I'm talking about Test cricket, not ODIs.

 

[RoboRocks]

I think Harbhajan is good bowler but the last couple of years have been unproductive for him. He's been unlucky overseas since pitches don't allow 2 spinners and Kumble is always perfered. He gets the ball to turn and of course has that doosra which goes the other way so I believe can still get back in form. Its a matter of finding rhythm.

 

[harishankar]

I think Harbhajan is good bowler but the last couple of years have been unproductive for him. He's been unlucky overseas since pitches don't allow 2 spinners and Kumble is always perfered. He gets the ball to turn and of course has that doosra which goes the other way so I believe can still get back in form. Its a matter of finding rhythm.

Yes, but he's been given plenty of chances now to get back into form. This Pakistan series was a perfect opportunity for him, but his spin so lacklustre that he looked the bowler least likely to pick a wicket from both teams in all the matches.

He's lost the bite and bounce which gave him the edge. He just tosses up the ball without any purpose now and ends up bowling half volleys or half trackers most of the time. I think one commentator said he just bowls too slowly to be effective these days, but whatever his problem is, he doesn't look like solving it any time soon...

 

[RoboRocks]

I think he has the talent to improve. He probably should vary his pace as well as delivery. There is no doubt in my mind that he has the talent.

 

[irottev]

He does his job. Nothing wrong with him. Kumble is number 1, but he's a good ODI bowler and good backup.

 

[Cricket_god]

how could you expect spinners to takje wickets on dead tra cks ,he requires some bounce and by preparing dead tracks will kill spinners

 

[harishankar]

He does his job. Nothing wrong with him. Kumble is number 1, but he's a good ODI bowler and good backup.

I feel what's wrong with him is that he cannot pick up wickets even on subcontinent pitches any more. I'm questioning his selection for the Test team in the main.

how could you expect spinners to takje wickets on dead tra cks ,he requires some bounce and by preparing dead tracks will kill spinners

So the point is that he needs tailormade pitches to succeed? That's not my idea of a quality spinner. What about giving opportunities to younger spinners and see what they can do? Why I disagree with Harbhajan being selected for Tests is because we haven't really seen other talent on display at the highest level for several years now. We need to move forward... otherwise we might find the spin-talent pool completely dry when Kumble retires (which must be within the next couple of years).

At least Kumble has some variation in pace and flight these days and can adapt to conditions. Harbhajan has nothing beyond a Doosra which is ineffective much of the time because it hardly turns for him anyway.

 

[ivanvdm15]

he seems alright to me , he did pretty well to me in the 20/20 world cup especially when he was brought on to bowl those last couple of overs.

 

[Cricket_god]

I feel what's wrong with him is that he cannot pick up wickets even on subcontinent pitches any more. I'm questioning his selection for the Test team in the main.



So the point is that he needs tailormade pitches to succeed? That's not my idea of a quality spinner. What about giving opportunities to younger spinners and see what they can do? Why I disagree with Harbhajan being selected for Tests is because we haven't really seen other talent on display at the highest level for several years now. We need to move forward... otherwise we might find the spin-talent pool completely dry when Kumble retires (which must be within the next couple of years).

At least Kumble has some variation in pace and flight these days and can adapt to conditions. Harbhajan has nothing beyond a Doosra which is ineffective much of the time because it hardly turns for him anyway.

well on dead tracks with no pace no bounce any bowler will struggle

 

[harishankar]

well on dead tracks with no pace no bounce any bowler will struggle

Well, I'm not saying he's useless - I'm just saying he's overrated as a match-winner and that there are other talented spinners who deserve chances as much as he does.

 

[aditya123]

Finally, I find someone who agrees with me on the fact that Harbhajan is not a matchwinner anymore.
Has has become more of a good ODI bowler who can contain the batsmen and pick up a couple of wickets .

His offspinners have lost the bite and do not look threatening at all.He needs tailormade wickets to run through a side.

Murali Karthik would`ve been a much better option for the Aussie series as the Aussies seem to have a weakness against left-arm spin.
We seem to have forgotten about Piyush Chawla. The guy deserves to be picked in the ODI side at least, especially after the way he bowled in the unhelpful English conditions.

well on dead tracks with no pace no bounce any bowler will struggle

If that is the case why is he hyped up as a matchwinner ?
There are other spinners in this country who can pick wickets on square turners.
He could`nt pick up wickets on a wicket which was a dream one for spinners at Mumbai in the last ODI versus Australia whereas M.Karthik took 6.
Even then, he was played ahead of Karthik against Pakistan.
Even in the second innings of the Bangalore test, the wicket had become a minefield where even Yuvraj Singh took a couple of wickets.
Had Harbhajan picked up a wicket or two, the game could`ve been won.

He seems to have lost the guile needed for a spinner to pick wickets and does not deserve to be in the test side at the moment.

he seems alright to me , he did pretty well to me in the 20/20 world cup especially when he was brought on to bowl those last couple of overs.

We are strictly talking of test cricket here and not T20s and ODIs where fast darts can do the job .

 

[harishankar]

Good reasoning aditya. Exactly what I wanted to say myself.

I saw that the newspaper columnists were busy blaming Irfan Pathan and poor Ishant Sharma (who picked up 5 wickets in an innings on debut - no mean feat) for not taking enough wickets on the 2nd innings of the Bangalore match, but seem to have conveniently forgotten Harbhajan's role in making this match a draw.

Also if a player like Munaf can be selected purely on his bowling ability, so can Ramesh Powar be selected ahead of Harbhajan Singh.

The difference between Kumble and Harbhajan's career is that Kumble has only got better and better, adding guile, variation and flight to his bowling over the years, while Harbhajan seems to have lost it.

 

[Cricket_god]

Finally, I find someone who agrees with me on the fact that Harbhajan is not a matchwinner anymore.
Has has become more of a good ODI bowler who can contain the batsmen and pick up a couple of wickets .

His offspinners have lost the bite and do not look threatening at all.He needs tailormade wickets to run through a side.

Murali Karthik would`ve been a much better option for the Aussie series as the Aussies seem to have a weakness against left-arm spin.
We seem to have forgotten about Piyush Chawla. The guy deserves to be picked in the ODI side at least, especially after the way he bowled in the unhelpful English conditions.



If that is the case why is he hyped up as a matchwinner ?
There are other spinners in this country who can pick wickets on square turners.
He could`nt pick up wickets on a wicket which was a dream one for spinners at Mumbai in the last ODI versus Australia whereas M.Karthik took 6.
Even then, he was played ahead of Karthik against Pakistan.
Even in the second innings of the Bangalore test, the wicket had become a minefield where even Yuvraj Singh took a couple of wickets.
Had Harbhajan picked up a wicket or two, the game could`ve been won.

He seems to have lost the guile needed for a spinner to pick wickets and does not deserve to be in the test side at the moment.



We are strictly talking of test cricket here and not T20s and ODIs where fast darts can do the job .

Harbhajan is an finger spinner he needs conditions like a bit of bounce and
pace in the wicket,which should be there in normal pitches,

In odis most countries try to play him out safely so his average has increased

in tests this season the wickets were dead,any spinner would have strugled on these pitches,

he was flighting the ball in calcutta test even if he beat the batsman in air
the wicket was damn slow so they would adjust,most players are able to wait on the backfoot as there is no bounce as well

Have a look at srilanka on slow tracks if the great murali is struggling then
harbhajan is still young and learning

Good reasoning aditya. Exactly what I wanted to say myself.

I saw that the newspaper columnists were busy blaming Irfan Pathan and poor Ishant Sharma (who picked up 5 wickets in an innings on debut - no mean feat) for not taking enough wickets on the 2nd innings of the Bangalore match, but seem to have conveniently forgotten Harbhajan's role in making this match a draw.

Also if a player like Munaf can be selected purely on his bowling ability, so can Ramesh Powar be selected ahead of Harbhajan Singh.

The difference between Kumble and Harbhajan's career is that Kumble has only got better and better, adding guile, variation and flight to his bowling over the years, while Harbhajan seems to have lost it.

our so called legends who write about our fast bowlers knowing nothing about them,i hear day in day out sunil gavaskar saying our fast bolwers do not have the pace to bowl short,he is a real jerk even if they are bowling at 90 miles he just can't get over it,he expects a 19 year old to bowl over 145 kmph,the pace that ishant bowls for a 19 year old is amazing,i really think he will be a good bowler,and when bowlers from othr countis touch 145,they are classified as real fast bowlers by him,

coming to harbhajan ,i think he is still young and learning,he will develop as a spinner generally develops around 32-33
even kumble was not a great bowler when he was 27

 

[SaiSrini]

Did Kumble pick wickets on dead pitches?? He is a quality spinner, but still he also wasnt able to pick wickets on unhelpful wickets. Warne wasnt useful on Indian wickets inspite of them being spinner's paradise. But he is still considered a legendary spinner.

Harbhajan has been unlucky (as some one said it) in the past few years. After his recent comeback, he looks different and seems to be trying harder. He is not overrated for sure, but he doesnt have the right person to advice him on how to bowl. He is very impatient, and when he starts to sticking to a particular line, he should continue at that but he is impatient for wickets and gives up easily.

I feel he can be India's number one spinner after Kumble retires. He needs the right guidance, and a strong mind.

 

[SciD]

Apart from the one Test series in 2001 where he really spun India to victory against Australia, Harbhajan Singh has by far been the biggest disappointment for Indian cricket, not being able to be a consistent match winner on most overseas tours and these days even failing to deliver on the tracks he prefers at home in India.

Personally I think his career has spoilt the chances of many a talented spinner (not least Murali Karthik) who deserved better than they have got.

It's my belief that Harbhajan didn't deserve so many chances to make a comeback to the Test team. Even Ramesh Powar is a better off-spinner than Harbhajan and Powar struggles to make it to the Test team (we cannot cite Powar's lack of fielding ability as the reason for being left out because there are half a dozen other Indian players who are regulars in the test team who cannot field for nuts)

So why do you think Bhajji has got so many opportunities to revive his career while others like Murali Karthik have never been allowed a longer run in Test cricket?

I also think one reason why India couldn't win 2-0 against Pakistan in the just concluded Indian Oil Series is because of Bhajji's lack of form and his inability to pick up wickets on these slow low pitches.

NOTE: I'm talking about Test cricket, not ODIs.

1) Murli Kartick is far worse than Bhajji. Kartick has had his chances and like Powar did not do anything with that. Can ypu give me 1 match winning performance from this guy?

2) You compare him to Powar and Kartick. But both of them play ODI and you cannt see them in test matches. Therefore as far as ODI concerned he is best spinner in India with economy rate of 4.1 consistently. If on Indian tracks where 300 is common my spinner gives me 41-45 runs every match I will take as captain.

3) He has not only won Australian series but has had very good performance after that also. How many wickets did Kumble took in Kolkatta and 1st innings of Banglore test?

4) Hes only 1 of 2 off spinners playing game right now who can bowl DOOSRA.

5) Pakistan probably play spin better after India. Therefore he was never going to light up the scenes in this series.

6) Fact remains hes still threat against England, RSA, Sri Lanka, West Indies, New Zealand. Even Aussies respect his bowling.