Is England the Ultimate Test for a Cricketer?

Ollie_H

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Playing in England has always been associated with overcast conditions, the swinging ball and the home of cricket, Lords. England's bowling attack has contributed some great swing bowlers in the past two decades but have they really been successful in ruining the images of some of the greatest batsman over the past two decades as well?

Well the stats would seem to point the other way, some of the greatest batsman over the past two decades seem to actually enjoy batting under the glorious English sunshine. I have put this under the knife of the Cricinfo statsguru. Minimum of 5 games, ordered by average, between the dates 1 Jan 1990 and 22 Oct 2010.

The top 10 batsman in England of the past two decades are;
IJL Trott (ENG) - 7 Matches, 829 runs @ 82.90
Saleem Malik (Pak) - 8 Matches, 683 runs @ 75.88
GC Smith (SA) - 9 Matches, 1083 runs @ 72.20
DC Boon (AUS) - 6 Matches, 555 runs @ 69.37
R Dravid (IND) - 9 Matches, 915 runs @ 65.35
SC Ganguly (IND) - 9 Matches, 915 runs @ 65.35
S Chanderpaul (WI) - 13 Matches, 1164 runs @ 64.66
DI Gower (ENG) - 6 Matches, 441 runs @ 63.00
SR Waugh (AUS) - 16 Matches, 1127 @ 62.61
GA Gooch (ENG) - 29 Matches, 3169 runs @ 62.13

Notable Others;
SR Tendulkar - 13 Matches, 1032 runs @ 62.00
R Ponting - 20 Matches, 1421 runs @ 41.79
Javed Miandad - 5 Matches, 364 runs @ 60.66
JH Kallis - 12 Matches, 586 runs @ 29.30

So, if some of the greatest batsman have actually thrived under the English swinging ball that is made out to be so dangerous, where is the hardest place to ply your trade as a batsman?
 

AngryPixel

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South Arica in IMO. A lot of batsman avg way less than their overall avg.(Tendulkar,Lara )

I did a little statguru search but accidentally used 5 innings restriction instead of 5 match :p
So according to this search, Mitchell Johnson is best batsman with 1 hundred and 1 fifty @ 85 in 3 matches.
 

TumTum

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Some days it is flat as a road and other days it is overcast and swinging. Really wouldn't look too deeply into these stats.
 

Ollie_H

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South Arica in IMO. A lot of batsman avg way less than their overall avg.(Tendulkar,Lara )

I did a little statguru search but accidentally used 5 innings restriction instead of 5 match :p
So according to this search, Mitchell Johnson is best batsman with 1 hundred and 1 fifty @ 85 in 3 matches.

Yeah I'd probably have to agree with South Africa. Initially I did actually think players would have fairly poor averages in the UK but when I did this search I was clearly proven wrong. I think even though the conditions have been wrong, it has only been in recent years that England have actually had the bowlers to utilize them to the full extent. I mean we saw the low scores all through the International summer and to some extent in the domestic season to. Although, that was due to a few changes to the rules that made it more bowler friendly, but I think either South Africa or Australia have to be the places.

Australia may have gotten away with it though due to the incredibly high standard of their bowling attack, and I reckon that now the Aussie attack has lost some quality, the English one is gaining it. Would be interesting to look at how the bowlers average in given countries to see where they ply their trade as well.

South Africa have always produced fairly good bowlers of a good standard and their conditions are helpful to swing, and the pitches move as well. One of the problems with Australia though is their use of the Kookaburra ball (or which ever one they use?) that it stops swinging after the initial burst with the new ball. Obviously if you can use the reverse swing in the latter overs of it you are good to go.

Some days it is flat as a road and other days it is overcast and swinging. Really wouldn't look too deeply into these stats.

Nice for you to add to some hearty discussion!
 

AngryPixel

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I think aussie pitches are nowhere as lethal as they used to be. English conditions appear lethal and ball also swings way more than anywhere else, but the ball swings early thus good batsman adjust to it easily.

Australian lineup isn't the best lineup to play in any conditions. Thats the reason why bowlers performed exceptionally well in recent Aus-Pak series.

As far as ultimate test goes, I think the India's tour of NZ just before 2003 world cup might be the one you are looking for. Pitches were grass beds. Sometimes it was hard to distinguish between outfield and pitches :p(Okay, i might have exaggerated that a bit but you got the point). Both teams were regularly getting out in 2 digit scores during the tour. I think one of the test matches finished in 2 days.
India scored 99 in 1st innings and then bowled NZ out for 94. Lowest 1st innings score to get a lead :D
 

TumTum

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Nice for you to add to some hearty discussion!

no problem

English conditions appear lethal and ball also swings way more than anywhere else, but the ball swings early thus good batsman adjust to it easily.

Depends how much it swings and what length/lines the bowlers bowl. Certainly wouldn't say good batsmen play it easily.

Australian lineup isn't the best lineup to play in any conditions. Thats the reason why bowlers performed exceptionally well in recent Aus-Pak series.

Yeah it had nothing to do with the ball swinging square, our batting is worse than NZ :sarcasm
 

used2bcool

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Did the Statsguru Search for South Africa with the same criteria that Ollie used, and here's the top ten:

1. Adam Gilchrist: 523 runs in 6 games @ 65
2. Nasir Hussain: 370 runs in 5 games @ 62
3. Jacques Kallis: 5927 runs in 74 games @ 56
4. Chris Gayle: 545 runs in 5 games @ 54
5. Ricky Ponting: 867 in 9 games @ 54
6. Andrew Strauss: 826 in 9 games @ 52
7. Steve Waugh: 603 in 9 games @ 50
8. Graeme Hick: 293 in 5 games @ 49
9. Ashwell Prince: 2001 in 33 games @ 48
10. Brian Lara: 849 in 9 games @ 47

Notable Others/Failures:
- Stephen Fleming: 927 in 11 games @ 46
- Graeme Smith: 3125 in 43 games @ 46
- Shiv Chanderpaul: 799 in 11 @ 42
- Sachin Tendulkar: 849 in 12 games @ 40
- Matt Hayden: 624 in 10 games @ 35
- Rahul Dravid: 504 in 8 games @ 34
- Inzamam: 445 in 8 games @ 32
- Virender Sehwag: 223 in 5 games @ 26
- Sanath Jayasuriya: 182 in 6 games @ 15

Does seem a bit more tough than England. South Africa also has the best combination of pitches and the bowlers who can use them best - and have had this combination consistently with the likes of Donald, de Villiers, Pollock, and Steyn lurking around.
 

Ollie_H

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8. Graeme Hick: 293 in 5 games @ 49

Wonder how else he did in Africa considering he was African :p.

It does seem like South Africa might be the hardest, and as you said they have produced some very notable areas in helpful conditions, and with a span of about 20 years it obviously gives a good time span to measure the development of pitches and bowlers.

I do think pitches in general need to be need to be more bowler friendly, as there was a large period of time when a lot of the pitches were just roads that weren't helpful at all. This is usually occuring in Sri Lanka, remembering numerous games were both teams playing have knocked out 600 and the game ends in a bore draw. India seems to have a strange system, were both teams make 500 in the first and then neither team seem to be able to bat in the second innings.

Ollie_H added 2 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

Another thing I just realised is that there is only one SAF in that top 10, where as ENG had 3 in their top 10. Clearly the South African's don't like batting at home :p.
 

Ollie_H

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If you wanna go into birth details then there is actually 3 of them because Strauss was born in South Africa as well.
 

AngryPixel

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India is different that Sri Lanka coz when the pitches deteriorate here, the ball turns and also gets decent bounce. In SL, pitches are slow turning tracks, batsman can pick the balls off the pitch. While in India you cannot afford to pick it of the pitch.
On the other hand, I'm loving the fact that how number of test matches with result have gone up in India in last 5 years or so.
 

Cricketman

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Probably, for the factor of playing in the home of cricket. I think it is followed by Australia and then India for the sheer challenge.
 

Ollie_H

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Probably, for the factor of playing in the home of cricket.

The problem with Lords, is two things, the first being that with the slope, it can cause bowlers to be wayward and give off easy runs and then the second that usually it isn't a 'result' pitch. I think that stat was before this year, there wasn't a result @ Lords for 5 years previously.

But that can be contrasted I think the fact that someone is playing at Lords can be overwhelming. Out of interest this is the statsguru page for the same qualifications but just batting @ Lords
 

AngryPixel

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It would be interesting to find the most result oriented ground. Though is it possible to search it in statsguru?
 

AkshayS

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SA is the toughest for batsmen in my opinion too. The stats have already been posted and they show the same thing.

But considering the difficulty for a team:

AGAINST INDIA IN INDIA

Team| Span |Mat| Won|Lost| Tied| Draw |%L
Australia |2008-2010| 6| 0| 4| 0| 2| 0.66
Sri Lanka |2005-2009 |6 |0 |4 |0 |2 |0.66
England |2006-2008 |5 |1 |2|0 |2 | 0.40
South Africa |2008-2010 |5 |2 |2 |0| 1 |0.40
Pakistan |2007-2007 |3| 0 |1 |0 |2 |0.33
Total |2005-2010| 25|3| 13 |0|9| 0.52


AGAINST ENGLAND IN ENGLAND

Team| Span |Mat| Won|Lost| Tied| Draw |%L
West Indies |2007-2009| 6| 0| 5| 0| 1| 0.83
Pakistan |2006-2010 |8 |1| 6 |0 |1 |0.75
New Zealand | 2008-2008 |3| 0 |2| 0| 1| 0.66
Australia |2009-2009 |5 |1 |2 |0 |2 |0.40
Sri Lanka | 2006-2006 |3 |1| 1 |0| 1| 0.33
South Africa |2008-2008| 4| 2| 1 |0 |1 | 0.25
India |2007-2007| 3 |1| 0| 0| 2| - 0.00
Total | last 5 years|32|6|17|0|9|0.53
 
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