Sir Garfield Sobers's bowling ability - Opinions vs Stats

Bublu Bhuyan

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Like many, I too rate Sir Garfield Sobers as the greatest cricketer to have ever lived. Let's face it, he is widely regarded as the greatest ever all rounder.

The point I'm about to raise is his bowling ability. Here's a paragraph from Wikipedia (Sir Garfield Sobers's page) -

Richie Benaud described Sobers as "the greatest all-round cricketer the world has seen". Sobers, wrote Benaud, was "a brilliant batsman, splendid fielder, particularly close to the wicket, and a bowler of extraordinary skill, whether bowling with the new ball, providing orthodox left-arm spin or over-the-wrist spin".


Let's look at Sobers's career bowling figures -

235 wickets @ 34.03, SR 91.9


It's true that stats don't give us the complete picture. It's quite true that someone like Viv Richards with an average lower than all of his contemporaries of his era is still considered far better than each one of them. It's also true that despite there being a huge gap in the average between Tendulkar and Lara all throughout their careers, the latter was always considered in the same league as Sachin.

But having said that, how can a player with a very mediocre bowling average of 34.03 and a pathetic strike rate of 91.9 be considered as 'a bowler of extraordinary skill'? It's just irrational.

What's the opinion of the rest of you guys on the issue?
 

ZoraxDoom

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Never seen him bowl, so could be wrong, but my guess is that he played a lot as a stock bowler or supporting act to the main strike bowlers of the team, so focused more on keeping runs down and maintaining pressure over taking wickets.

Second thought is that he could have been highly respected by all the batsmen, and so treated with that much caution. The most skilful bowlers aren't always the best at getting batsmen out, so that could be the case here. Very good bowler, but couldn't out-think a batsman?
 

StinkyBoHoon

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well, I might get into this more a bit later, but it's worth noting that the strike rate wasn't "pathetic", strike rates were usually much higher for spinners in those days, Bedi's is 80, lance gibbs 87, Venkataraghavan 95, benaud 77, prasanna 75.

Chandrasekhar and laker with 65 and 62 are probably the only spinners from those days with impressive SRs by modern standards, and no one is suggesting he was the best bowler of the era. Just that he was pretty damn good.

It's also worth noting that he bowled a lot, many all-rounders, particularly batting ones, hide their averages by not bowling much when the opposition is dominating (the captain using his front line bowlers to get a break through and because that's what they're for) but sobers always bowled a heavy share of overs right up to his retirement. (though it should be said, his worst bowling performances came at the beginning of his career when he was picked as a spinner, not a batsman or all-rounder)
 

khalek

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Hmm good point.

Out of all the great all rounders, he is probably the best batsman followed by Kallis and those all rounders who were great bowlers with an average of well under 30 were not that great batsmen so I guess it's pretty tough for an all rounder to be averaging 50ish with the bat and 20ish with the ball.

One great thing about Sir Garry Sobers' bowling was that he used to bowl three types of deliveries with different actions so he was someone who could be used in all types of conditions.
 

mdoggie

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The strike is so low because of the era he played in, an era of ultra defensive attitudes (example Ken Borrington) and an average of 34 is not bad with the ball, it's better than many spinners averages today. He wasn't a star bowler but all rounders are never stars with both bat and ball.

But what was remarkable about sobers was his versatility, he could open the bowling with seam or bowl spin. All that while being the most dominant batsman and importantly, fielder of his generation.
 
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pcfan123

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Greatest overall cricketer of all time. Also coolest name ever in cricket after Napoleon Einstein.
 

shravi

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As a bowler alone he might not be all that great, but considering that he averaged that much with the bat, averaging 34 with the ball is quite an accomplishment. Also, his bowling really came along as his career progressed.
 

Dare

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When people see that Sobers bowled pace they think it was just some pedestrian medium pace but he could reach really high speeds. He wasn't express but he wasn't some slow bowler. Stinky made a good point with the averages for spinners during the time that Sobers played. He opened the bowling 39 times in 159 innings, he had most innings at #3 (48) probably getting some of the new ball and then bowling spin. To be able to bat like he did and captain the side and also share allot of the overs it says something about his ability as an all rounder.


[youtube]
[/youtube]

From 1:05 you can see Sobers bowling a bit.
 
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RoboRocks

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One reason was that the ball doesn't swing in the West Indies and, as Dare said, he didn't open the bowling a lot in his career. Sobers, would generally have to come on first change, and bowl back-of-a-length.

One thing to note though is his record in India is very good. I'm guessing he bowled his spinners effectively over there. Although he might of given the Indians some short pitched bowling, since the Indian batsmen didn't play the short ball well in those days.
 
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pcfan123

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Seeing him bowl in that video, how come we don't see Windies bowlers with that type of action anymore? A lot of the Windies greats had that helicopter whirl thing going. Don't see it at all today
 

RoboRocks

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Seeing him bowl in that video, how come we don't see Windies bowlers with that type of action anymore? A lot of the Windies greats had that helicopter whirl thing going. Don't see it at all today

The question is, why don't we see anyone with that action anymore?

A really poetic and classical action.

The reason is, I think, the modern coaches believe it puts too much stress on the body. So pace bowlers bowl more chest on now.
 

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