AI field setting in the context of DBC17 Academy settings

[blockerdave]

One of the things I've personally found disappointing about DBC14 when batting, is the lack of variety offered by opponents. Generally you're facing the same fields regardless of opponent, pitch condition, ball age etc.

I was hoping that, per one of the things I've suggested previously (and I assume @MattW and @Ross printed it out and put it on the Big Ant office wall) we'd see in DBC17 Academy:

• A captaincy attribute, that sets how aggressive they are, how likely they are to switch from their plans, how quickly they change bowlers, likelihood to use part time bowlers

But this isn't there, however it's possible I think we could co-opt the bowling mentality attribute to achieve the following:

ASSUMPTION: I'm assuming the Match Engine can already calculate match conditions specifically the match type (fc, list a, t20, other but fc type, other but limited over type, other but t20 type or shorter); whether we're in the early, middle, or late stage of the match (or powerplay or death for limited overs); whether the match is balanced or the batting or bowling side is ahead.

ADDITION: I would add a team goal - aggression, attack, containment, defence, desperation. Each of these would be a flag on field sets, so calculating the team goal filters the field set from which the actual field in place is selected.

CO-OPT and addition: I would co-opt the existing bowling mentality, with the addition of a panicky mentality (more prone to desperation). Each would add a modifier to the probability of a certain team goal being selected.

So at any given time, tbased on the match type, stage and balance, each of the goals mentioned would have a “Base Weight” determining a broad probability of the likelihood of that goal being chosen: e.g. at the beginning of a test match, with the game even, the goal will be aggressive or attacking, and no chance of the other goals.

As Power Play and Death stages do not apply to first class, there are 165 combinations that would apply to the base weight.

The base weight would then be adjusted by the captain's mentality:

e.g. an aggressive captain would increase the probablity of aggression being the team goal by 1.5 and attack by 1.25, and reduce the chance of containment or defence; a panicky captain would increase the chance of desperation etc.

ideally, the match engine would also calculate the pitch condition (favours batting, favours bowling, balanced), ball condition (new, wearing with movement, wearing with no movement, old), batsman/partnership status (new, settled, in control, dominant) and each of these would also further amend the base probability.

I feel this would give us the holy grail of varying opponents that DBC is lacking.

You would limit the calculation of the team goal according to the match type to avoid constant field changes, a suggestion might be:

FC all except late: only once per batsman every 4 overs, reset at fall of wicket, or after 3 boundaries in 1 over
List A: once per batsman per over in power play; once per batsman per over rest of the match but reset after 2 boundaries in an over; every ball at death
T20/short: twice per batsman per over; reset at fall of wicket or after 2 boundaries in an over; every ball at death

FIELD SETS: the field sets in the academy would have the flag as being suitable for the team goals, and also available to the AI. so when the match engine calculates an AI goal (e.g. aggression) it can pick ANY field marked as suiting aggression and available to AI.

Hope that something similar to this can be implemented. The variety of opponent is desperately needed to increase immersion.

 

[Dutch]

Sticky this

 

[Markkkkk]

Give me a minute...

 

[Biggs]

the field sets in the academy would have the flag as being suitable for the team goals

This would also be a pretty amazing instructional bit of the game for people not versed in the intricacies of each format of the game. One of the more frustrating things of field-sets in almost every cricket game is toggling through the dozens and dozens of varying field sets, none explaining their pros or cons. Could easily be solved by having the first default menu being something like "Recommended" where the AI takes into account the match situation, batsman abilities and gives you a set of Attacking, Moderate and Defensive field sets to select from.

 

[Ajh1977]

Its a very good idea blocker, the only thing that id want added to something like that is the ability to move the fielders a few yards (1m if close, 5m infield, 10m outfield) from their base position in any direction.

 

[cricket_online]

Its a very good idea blocker, the only thing that id want added to something like that is the ability to move the fielders a few yards (1m if close, 5m infield, 10m outfield) from their base position in any direction.

Positioning players anywhere on the field instead of the pre-selected field positions (e.g., Point, Cover Point, Deep Cover etc.) may not be feasible for the simple reason it will take too much effort testing and ensuring the game doesn't break when users put fielders in a particular field set. What I mean is that there would simply be too many permutations and combinations possible for the development & testing team to evaluate how AI would respond to various field positions and/or field sets. That's why I would prefer Big Ant work with the PC.org community to nail down most common field sets across various formats and ensure the AI uses them and reacts to them well. Once Big Ant has nailed this part, in future iterations they can think of having fielders placed anywhere on the field in "free form".

 

[zimrahil]

From experience of playing all previous games you need fixed fielding positions to have any chance of allowing AI batting to have any real chance

 

[blockerdave]

Positioning players anywhere on the field instead of the pre-selected field positions (e.g., Point, Cover Point, Deep Cover etc.) may not be feasible for the simple reason it will take too much effort testing and ensuring the game doesn't break when users put fielders in a particular field set. What I mean is that there would simply be too many permutations and combinations possible for the development & testing team to evaluate how AI would respond to various field positions and/or field sets. That's why I would prefer Big Ant work with the PC.org community to nail down most common field sets across various formats and ensure the AI uses them and reacts to them well. Once Big Ant has nailed this part, in future iterations they can think of having fielders placed anywhere on the field in "free form".

Definitely they should take some input (as they did on DBC14) but I'd be disappointed if they left it that the AI only had a subset of fields to choose from that the user could not add to.

Case in point, during the patch process myself and grkrama suggested a lot of fields that the AI now uses. Fact is I'd change some of mine - I'd have less 7/2 fields and remove at least one of the ones that leave mid on open. But I discovered that over time playing against them and now I can't do anything about it.

Letting me flag fields as being available to the AI let's me add additional challenges over time, and by giving a larger subset of fields the AI can choose from in any given situation we can get more variety even if they implement nothing else I've suggested here.

 

[grkrama]

Letting me flag fields as being available to the AI let's me add additional challenges over time, and by giving a larger subset of fields the AI can choose from in any given situation we can get more variety even if they implement nothing else I've suggested here.

+ this, also being able to share fields in academy would also be great!

Case in point, during the patch process myself and grkrama suggested a lot of fields that the AI now uses. Fact is I'd change some of mine - I'd have less 7/2 fields and remove at least one of the ones that leave mid on open. But I discovered that over time playing against them and now I can't do anything about it.

ya there are some tweaks i would do to, plus didn't also account for the square drives that were added later!

 

[Nack]

I really like this idea, although I think to a certain extent the AI already does this. I have noticed that the fields the AI sets when a batsman has an individual score of 50-100 are more defensive. I do hope that this suggestion has been taken on board and this area of the AI has been made more complicated (i.e. the level of attack/defense also depends on things like the match situation and the temperament of the captain, rather than just the batman's score), however, a bigger priority for me would be that the fields correspond to a bowling plan, which is certainly not the case at all with DBC14.

The ultimate for me would be that there are a set of aggressive fields, defensive fields and 'holding' fields, and each of the fields in these categories correspond to bowling plans.

For example:

The aggressive category would include a couple of fields for 'generally full, outside off' bowling - such as one with a full slip cordon, one with maybe one less slip and a cover or mid on instead, etc. - and it would include a couple of fields for 'short stuff' (fielders out on the leg side).

The defensive category would have fields for 'back of a length, outside off' bowling and fields for 'straight' bowling. Naturally there would be few catchers.

The 'holding' category would be similar to the defensive category except that it would include more catchers.

Each of the 'plans' would also vary the lines and lengths somewhat (i.e. even if it the plan is 'generally full, outside off' there would be the occasional short one, or the occasional straight one)

The plans would also depend on the strengths and weaknesses of the batsman, based on what has been set in the player's profile - or, to be a bit more ambitious, based on what shots they have been favouring in their innings.

As with blockerdave's idea, the aggressiveness of the captain would influence how often they change plans and how long/often they deploy the fields/plans in the 'aggressive category'.

To me this makes a lot of sense, particularly for the long format of the game. Bowlers don't just bowl anywhere in real life - they bowl according to a plan, and according to the field they have set. I love DBC14 but it really feels like the bowling AI is non-existent, in the sense that where the ball pitches is completely random.

 

[Biggs]

Bowlers don't just bowl anywhere in real life - they bowl according to a plan, and according to the field they have set.

I wonder if there is some way within the academy to assign specific field sets to specific bowlers. So when you're creating a player, you're setting instructions for the AI to adhere to and as a default for when you're playing that team/player... Then in the overal match menu before the game you might set the default "team" strategy. Attack, Defend or Moderate (mix of the two) ...then you start the match.

Here's how it could work...

In the academy, maybe it's as simple as "3 Slots" for each created bowler. Default Attack Plan, Default Moderate Plan, Default Defensive Plan. You might like more than three, but lets keep it simple for now. Lets create a "plan" for our created bowler:

Attack "Plans" to select from might be:

1. Attack The Stumps
   
2. Attack the edge of the bat
   
3. Attack with shorter deliveries
4. Attack the legs of the batsman

Moderate "Plans" might be:

1. Short of a length
2. Run restriction
3. Wide outside off stump
4. 4 - 2 Plan (4 Regular Deliveries, 2 slower deliveries, standard variation plan)

Defensive "Plans" might be:

1. Full and straight, no variations
2. Deliveries at the body
3. Fielders in the deep
4. Wide Yorkers

You could literally have a dozen, these are just basic "plans" that have say, half a dozen field settings tied to them that the AI can select from or are "recommended" to you when you're in control (cite; the "Flag" option or reduced menu options as suggested earlier). When you select the overal "Team Plan" before the match begins, all your bowlers default to their predetermined individual plans as you've set up in the academy. That way, you can have individual bowlers with plans, along with an overall team goal. Many international teams are more attacking, or defensive but it allows you to set a specific plan for a specific match and have players respond individually to that specific team goal.

What this essentially does is two fold:

• It allows you to not have to worry about changing fields all the time, when you bring on a bowler, you've already set a "plan" for the team and an individual "plan" for that specific bowler. You just have to bowl to that plan, then you can change the fields manually if that plan isn't working. But there's already a distinct set of plans set for individual players that are unique to that bowler. Furthermore, it's educational! Since your bowlers can't utilize all the plans individually, they have strengths and weaknesses. X bowler might just have a bunch of really aggressive attack plans and very few defensive plans, so bringing him on in a defensive situation has cause-and-effect. You might get a wicket, but you're leaking runs through the field if you don't change it up.
  
• It allows the AI to have an objective set automatically for all scenarios. If they're getting their ass kicked, they can default to a defensive strategy automatically and have bowlers respond in kind and fields that match. If you set an "Attacking" team plan before the match starts, the AI can then assess the team, skills and select a strategy to counter that.
  

Perhaps part of the overal team "Plan" also involves selecting a side after you've seen the pitch report and made an assessment based on those factors too?

 

[cricket_online]

Definitely they should take some input (as they did on DBC14) but I'd be disappointed if they left it that the AI only had a subset of fields to choose from that the user could not add to.

Case in point, during the patch process myself and grkrama suggested a lot of fields that the AI now uses. Fact is I'd change some of mine - I'd have less 7/2 fields and remove at least one of the ones that leave mid on open. But I discovered that over time playing against them and now I can't do anything about it.

Letting me flag fields as being available to the AI let's me add additional challenges over time, and by giving a larger subset of fields the AI can choose from in any given situation we can get more variety even if they implement nothing else I've suggested here.

I don't think myself clear. The first and foremost priority should be to have a wide variety of preset fields which AI is comfortable with and using which the AI is able to challenge human players. Next item should be AI able to respond appropriately to custom fields where users place the fielders in the preset field positions (Cover, Point, Mid On etc.). The point I was making about the field-sets not being compatible was about custom fields where fielders can be placed literally anywhere on the field, i.e. have a fielder half-way between Cover and Deep Cover which is not a pre-set fielding spot in the game. I think this is what @Ajh1977 was asking for and I believe this would lead to inconsistent results from AI since it wouldn't be possible to test for nearly endless field-set scenarios. For the time being the focus should be on AI challenging users with pre-set fields and pre-set field fielding positions and when Big Ant have nailed it they can move to "free form" fields.

 

[Llewelynf]

I wonder if there is some way within the academy to assign specific field sets to specific bowlers. So when you're creating a player, you're setting instructions for the AI to adhere to and as a default for when you're playing that team/player... Then in the overal match menu before the game you might set the default "team" strategy. Attack, Defend or Moderate (mix of the two) ...then you start the match.

Here's how it could work...

In the academy, maybe it's as simple as "3 Slots" for each created bowler. Default Attack Plan, Default Moderate Plan, Default Defensive Plan. You might like more than three, but lets keep it simple for now. Lets create a "plan" for our created bowler:

Attack "Plans" to select from might be:

1. Attack The Stumps
   
2. Attack the edge of the bat
   
3. Attack with shorter deliveries
4. Attack the legs of the batsman

Moderate "Plans" might be:

1. Short of a length
2. Run restriction
3. Wide outside off stump
4. 4 - 2 Plan (4 Regular Deliveries, 2 slower deliveries, standard variation plan)

Defensive "Plans" might be:

1. Full and straight, no variations
2. Deliveries at the body
3. Fielders in the deep
4. Wide Yorkers

You could literally have a dozen, these are just basic "plans" that have say, half a dozen field settings tied to them that the AI can select from or are "recommended" to you when you're in control (cite; the "Flag" option or reduced menu options as suggested earlier). When you select the overal "Team Plan" before the match begins, all your bowlers default to their predetermined individual plans as you've set up in the academy. That way, you can have individual bowlers with plans, along with an overall team goal. Many international teams are more attacking, or defensive but it allows you to set a specific plan for a specific match and have players respond individually to that specific team goal.

What this essentially does is two fold:

• It allows you to not have to worry about changing fields all the time, when you bring on a bowler, you've already set a "plan" for the team and an individual "plan" for that specific bowler. You just have to bowl to that plan, then you can change the fields manually if that plan isn't working. But there's already a distinct set of plans set for individual players that are unique to that bowler. Furthermore, it's educational! Since your bowlers can't utilize all the plans individually, they have strengths and weaknesses. X bowler might just have a bunch of really aggressive attack plans and very few defensive plans, so bringing him on in a defensive situation has cause-and-effect. You might get a wicket, but you're leaking runs through the field if you don't change it up.
  
• It allows the AI to have an objective set automatically for all scenarios. If they're getting their ass kicked, they can default to a defensive strategy automatically and have bowlers respond in kind and fields that match. If you set an "Attacking" team plan before the match starts, the AI can then assess the team, skills and select a strategy to counter that.

Perhaps part of the overal team "Plan" also involves selecting a side after you've seen the pitch report and made an assessment based on those factors too?

This would make a whole lot of sense. This is something similar to what I thought about. Pre-existing plans for bowlers, that could be supplemented greatly by field sets that "fit" that plan. We have the academy, so I think it should be utilised for that. It just makes sense.

 

[blockerdave]

@Biggs I initially had a plan for (and actually wrote a draft of as I've been planning it a while) field sets to have flags for suiting short/good length/ full and also wide of off, corridor, on stumps, leg side that would act as further filters and help fields be picked according to either bowler's strength or batsmen weakness and would even include bowler/captaincy assertiveness to increase the variety (sometimes captain gets the say, sometimes bowler).

However when the academy released and the relative paucity of attrubutes/skills on any mental side of the game made it clear none of that was viable, I stripped it down to what I posted and seeing if we could co-opt the bowler mentality.

I was a little disappointed that the skills/attributes ignored the mental side of the game

 

[Nack]

@Biggs I initially had a plan for (and actually wrote a draft of as I've been planning it a while) field sets to have flags for suiting short/good length/ full and also wide of off, corridor, on stumps, leg side that would act as further filters and help fields be picked according to either bowler's strength or batsmen weakness and would even include bowler/captaincy assertiveness to increase the variety (sometimes captain gets the say, sometimes bowler).

However when the academy released and the relative paucity of attrubutes/skills on any mental side of the game made it clear none of that was viable, I stripped it down to what I posted and seeing if we could co-opt the bowler mentality.

I was a little disappointed that the skills/attributes ignored the mental side of the game

They haven't removed the aggressive/brute/conservative/opportunistic attributes, have they? Surely they would be sufficient to play the sort of role we are talking about with regard to strategies, right?