A question I've always had about bowling: the knuckleball.

[bahnzo]

As an American and a baseball fan (and part-time cricket fan) I've always wondered if anyone has ever bowled the equivalent of a baseball "knuckleball"? Is it possible? I know there are some strict rules on bowling and the arm motion, so maybe it's not.

 

[ethybubs]

I believe Richie Benaud had a 'knuckle-ball', however I'm not familiar with the baseball knuckleball so I can't tell you if they are the same without an explanation.

 

[bahnzo]

I believe Richie Benaud had a 'knuckle-ball', however I'm not familiar with the baseball knuckleball so I can't tell you if they are the same without an explanation.

The quick explain: it's a ball that is thrown with all spin removed from the ball. This causes it to "knuckle" or it's flight to be erratic. A good knuckleball "dances" on the way to the batter and is impossible to gauge.

I would imagine that if possible in cricket, it would be maybe even more so a difficult pitch due to it's being also erratic when it bounces.

But again, I'm not sure the intricacies of the arm movement in cricket, so I don't know if it's even possible.

Edit: So I did the smart thing, and googled "knuckleball cricket" and was a little surprised. It doesn't seem to exist. The two articles I found, was Sunil Narine, and Zaheer Khan.

Neither are knuckleballs. Sunil seemed close, but the videos I found, even with slow motion, showed significant spin. Not a knuckleball. The video claiming to show Zaheer...wasn't even close. A knuckleball is kind of a mis-nomer. It isn't thrown with the knuckles, but with the fingernails. This removes all spin from the ball. If it's possible in cricket, I'm surprised it doesn't exist, because the effect would be magnified when it's thrown against the wind. And with the ability in cricket to choose the end a bowler throws from, it seems to me it would be *devistating* to have the choice to throw this pitch against the wind.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

Good question... I hadn't even thought about it really. In football this technique seems to have gained popularity with Ronaldo being the main exponent of it on his free kicks and long shots where there's no spin on the ball and it moves and dips very sharply and unpredictably, so it seems to maintain it's effectiveness with different styles and shape of ball, so it seems reasonable that it would work with a cricket ball... Admittedly, I don't know much about the physics of it though or how to go about trying to bowl one.

 

[ParkedTheBus]

Literally speaking, yes. Sunil Narine used the knuckle-ball to great effect in the 2012 IPL. And a year before that, Zaheer used it in the 2011 CWC. I am not sure if they are similar to its baseball namesake though.

 

[hawkeye]

Good question bahnzo and one I have thought about and asked before ever since I saw a documentary the knuckle ball in baseball. I even considered writing an article on it.

From what I have seen the knuckle ball in cricket is different from the one in baseball in that, as you described it, there is spin imparted in cricket's version. I wonder if you could impart enough power with a straight arm to deliver a baseball type knuckle ball in cricket.

 

[Aalay]

Ignore the music and everything but in this video at 9:40 and 12:48, Zaheer Khan bowls the knuckle bowl that you are talking about. He bowled it to Mike Hussey and Kapugedera.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Prob the nearest delivery to the effect of a knuckleball is something like this :

It's not the same technique but the idea of distorting the batsman's perception with a weird looking delivery that seems like it hangs in the air so he makes a totally useless, mistimed swing is prob a fairly good match.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

That always makes me laugh, what the hell was Read doing?

 

[T.J.Hooker]

Well technically speaking I think he was just beaten in the flight. The slight upward trajectory as the ball comes out of the hand is misread as forward movement, and so he was expecting an 85mph beamer.

He might have lost the ball out of the hand as well. I dunno if there was an issue with Cairns and the sightscreen at Lords or something like that. Or maybe he lost the ball partway through the flight.

It looks ridiculous though. Phil Tufnell class batting.

 

[bahnzo]

Good question bahnzo and one I have thought about and asked before ever since I saw a documentary the knuckle ball in baseball. I even considered writing an article on it.

From what I have seen the knuckle ball in cricket is different from the one in baseball in that, as you described it, there is spin imparted in cricket's version. I wonder if you could impart enough power with a straight arm to deliver a baseball type knuckle ball in cricket.

The Knuckleball documentary is great, eh? I recommend it to anyone interested in the pitch. Also, read the book, "Ball Four", I'm sure it's still in print.

Power has nothing to do with it. In fact, the knuckleball is the easiest pitch (on the arm anyways) to throw. Most knuckleball pitchers wind up that way because they threw their arms out and have nothing left. It's all in the technique. A knuckleball pitcher could throw a game every night and not tire his arm.

I really admire the pitch and could talk about it all day, so I'll try not to bore, but if you are interested then please don't hesitate.

But again, I'm very surprised that it's not utilized more in the game of cricket. It's tough to learn, and in baseball it's a black sheep kind of pitch. It's devastating when a pitcher throws it well.

 

[bahnzo]

Ignore the music and everything but in this video at 9:40 and 12:48, Zaheer Khan bowls the knuckle bowl that you are talking about. He bowled it to Mike Hussey and Kapugedera.

Not sure about the second one, but the first at 9:40, if you stop it at exactly 10 mins, you can see Zaheer tucks the ball into his hand during the windup. I can't see the release (it's YouTube and quality is bad), but from the grip, it's very similar and probably at least a very good attempt at one.

Everything I've looked at so far teeters on the edge of what I know as a knuckleball. In the cricket vids, the ball spins WAY to much to be considered as one. In baseball, a good knuckler maybe spins one time in it's flight to the batter. You really have to remove almost all spin from the ball to make it effective. But again that might not be possible in cricket. I'll have to find a good video to show you guys the grip and the explanation of it's delivery. I can demonstrate myself, but a total amateur can't do it justice.

 

[Samuels]

The knuckleball in baseball is used to actually minimize the spin. More on that.

How To Throw Knuckleball

 

[hawkeye]

Thanks Bahnzo. Will try to find the book. I wasn't thinking of power to impart pace on the ball. Was thinking it would require much more power in the fingers to thrust the ball the length of the pitch without it spinning without the bent arm. Hope I'm making sense. The straight arm facilitates back spin or over spin. It won't be easy to bowl a ball that doesn't spin at all which is a requirement for the knuckle ball unless you are able at the point of release to thrust it forward with your fingers. That would require some strength I think.

Of course I may be talking nonsense but that is my impression having seen the knucke ball in baseball.

 

[bahnzo]

Nope, no thrust at all with the fingers. The whole point of the grip is to better be able to release the ball w/o spin. As you toss the ball, you simply let go and the less purchase you have on the ball, the better because it will help reduce spin. Think about how you normally grip a ball...you do it with your fingers extended around the ball. And the reason for that is when you throw it, the ball rolls off your fingers imparting spin. This spin makes the ball more accurate and predicable. With the knuckleball, you grip it only with the tips of your fingers.