English Domestic Cricket

[stephencox32]

Yep - can you imagine that these days

 

[EmJo]

ECB proposes 100-ball format for men's and women's domestic game in 2020

This is getting a bit ridiculous.

I feel this will be a push too far and will just weaken the four day game. I ask the ECB to stick to the usual formats and not to 'experiment' with untested formula.

 

[El Loco]

I feel this will be a push too far and will just weaken the four day game. I ask the ECB to stick to the usual formats and not to 'experiment' with untested formula.

Would debase the sport in England for sure, they've definitely gone overboard with the innovation on this one.

 

[EmJo]

Would debase the sport in England for sure, they've definitely gone overboard with the innovation on this one.

I'm from Yorkshire and we tend to stick with tradition, if it isn't broke then don't try to change it. Living in London everyone feels they need to change everything and 'get' modern. No way the game is good just don't complicate things and keep what we know and love.

 

[Master Bates]

Laurie Evans is in form of his life. Three fifties in APL.

 

[El Loco]

Laurie Evans is in form of his life. Three fifties in APL.

He's carried his T20 Blast form into the next tournament well. He had to become a late-bloomer after leaving Warwickshire didn't he

 

[El Loco]

I'm a bit late on this one but I read about John Emburey's proposal for a '£3 Million spin' fund to help try and bridge the disparity between us and other countries in that department.
The problem is quite deep-rooted it seems as counties don't even have spin bowling coaches and there generally isn't any proper system in place to actually unearth spin talent which comes as no surprise tbh. Great idea if viable, the cricket board do seem to be splashing the cash on other areas such as batting coaching projects etc which are obviously paying dividends, but haven't seen anything about it since.

 

[Bhumi]

Sir
What was the result on divison 1 and Divison 2 county championship
2018?

I am new for eng domestic

 

[Aislabie]

I'm a bit late on this one but I read about John Emburey's proposal for a '£3 Million spin' fund to help try and bridge the disparity between us and other countries in that department.

The problem is quite deep-rooted it seems as counties don't even have spin bowling coaches and there generally isn't any proper system in place to actually unearth spin talent which comes as no surprise tbh. Great idea if viable, the cricket board do seem to be splashing the cash on other areas such as batting coaching projects etc which are obviously paying dividends, but haven't seen anything about it since.

Speaking as a seamer-turned-spinner, I will agree wholeheartedly that the problem is very deep-rooted. In fact I'd probably say that it permeates all levels of cricket to be honest. A few examples:

• I'm 6'5" and built perfectly for seam bowling (apart from my knees being built from purest poppadom) which used to get my foot in the door at some places. However, I'm also perfectly built for bowling off-spin in particular: I'm tall as mentioned (lots of bounce) and have massive hands which help to put lots of revolutions on the ball. It also enables me to bowl a variation that I've not met anyone else who can comfortably bowl. Yet all I ever hear is how someone like me should be a fast bowler.
• When I bowled quick, I was always given a licence to go for some runs and the odd boundary on the account that I might be looking for wickets. For example, I'd have a few spells every season that would end up being sort of 6-0-32-2 and people would say "well bowled" or "that was a really unlucky spell". As a rule of thumb, if you're leaking over five runs an over in anything other than professional white-ball cricket, you're doing something wrong. Compare that to a spinner who can spend three overs beating the bat then get hit for two boundaries at the end of them and end up being pulled from the attack with figures like 3-1-11-0 because "they were starting to get after you a bit". It's really silly, but it's the attitude of about 65% of captains I've played under.
• There's a general attitude that seam bowlers work harder for their wickets than spinners. While that's arguably true in terms of forces and physical load, it's not entirely accurate either. Many times I've come off the field with four or five wickets, and an opening bowler has come up to me bitching about how they bowled this amazing spell and got through the openers and then I came on and took the easy wickets bowling slowly. All while ignoring the fact that after a spell of off-spin I'm usually bleeding profusely from my hand because my stock off-break rips open the flesh by the knuckle of my middle finger. I'm literally shedding blood for the cause, then putting the ball back in my hand and repeating the motion that already opened it up, but no fast bowler would recognise that that means I'm also bowling through pain.
• Fast bowlers tend (at least in England) to get more more attention and praise than the spinners who outperform them. I'm using a specific example here, but there was an occasion when everyone kept saying how well our opening bowler was bowling and in fairness he was - he had a season bowling average of about 15, which is very good. But that season, I finished with a bowling average of eight. And it took quite some time for people to notice that by mid-June I had more league wickets than anyone else in Wales (this didn't last because I only played a couple more games that season before breaking my hand)
• Even on the most spin-tailored surface, spinners are rarely given the chance to open the bowling. Now, I recognise how helpful the new ball can be for seamers, but as a spinner it also can add potency to your bowling: the chance of the brand new seam biting off the pitch, or of the smooth, shiny side skidding on. Also of greater drift through the air too. But even on the dustiest of dustbowls, you will never see two spinners open the bowling in the UK unless there are literally no decent seamers in the side.*

This attitude also persists to the professional game, where counties will so often select the spinner who is the better batsman as opposed to the spinner who is the better bowler (for example, Kieran Bull versus Adam Salter at Glamorgan), or else no spinner at all; also, if you look back to Essex's Championship run in 2017, do you remember how much more attention and praise Jamie Porter received than Simon Harmer? It wasn't just because of where Harmer was born.

* The one time that this did happen was the first game I ever bowled off-spin (although the captain didn't know that). I'd already introduced myself as an off-spinner, and we were casting around for some seamers to open the bowling. I answered (truthfully) that "I normally open the bowling for my club", so I was given the new ball at one end; I then persuaded the skipper to give a left-arm spinner a go at the other end so that we'd be turning the ball in opposite directions, rather than giving the new ball to a specialist batsman who bowls a little bit of dibbly-dobbly medium pace. The first result of this was that our over-rate was absolutely ridiculous: we got through sixteen overs in the first half-hour. The other result was that I was allowed to bowl plenty of overs, and finished with 18-4-54-3 which I was incredibly happy with as a first-ever outing of off-spin!

 

[El Loco]

Speaking as a seamer-turned-spinner, I will agree wholeheartedly that the problem is very deep-rooted. In fact I'd probably say that it permeates all levels of cricket to be honest. A few examples:

• I'm 6'5" and built perfectly for seam bowling (apart from my knees being built from purest poppadom) which used to get my foot in the door at some places. However, I'm also perfectly built for bowling off-spin in particular: I'm tall as mentioned (lots of bounce) and have massive hands which help to put lots of revolutions on the ball. It also enables me to bowl a variation that I've not met anyone else who can comfortably bowl. Yet all I ever hear is how someone like me should be a fast bowler.
• When I bowled quick, I was always given a licence to go for some runs and the odd boundary on the account that I might be looking for wickets. For example, I'd have a few spells every season that would end up being sort of 6-0-32-2 and people would say "well bowled" or "that was a really unlucky spell". As a rule of thumb, if you're leaking over five runs an over in anything other than professional white-ball cricket, you're doing something wrong. Compare that to a spinner who can spend three overs beating the bat then get hit for two boundaries at the end of them and end up being pulled from the attack with figures like 3-1-11-0 because "they were starting to get after you a bit". It's really silly, but it's the attitude of about 65% of captains I've played under.
• There's a general attitude that seam bowlers work harder for their wickets than spinners. While that's arguably true in terms of forces and physical load, it's not entirely accurate either. Many times I've come off the field with four or five wickets, and an opening bowler has come up to me bitching about how they bowled this amazing spell and got through the openers and then I came on and took the easy wickets bowling slowly. All while ignoring the fact that after a spell of off-spin I'm usually bleeding profusely from my hand because my stock off-break rips open the flesh by the knuckle of my middle finger. I'm literally shedding blood for the cause, then putting the ball back in my hand and repeating the motion that already opened it up, but no fast bowler would recognise that that means I'm also bowling through pain.
• Fast bowlers tend (at least in England) to get more more attention and praise than the spinners who outperform them. I'm using a specific example here, but there was an occasion when everyone kept saying how well our opening bowler was bowling and in fairness he was - he had a season bowling average of about 15, which is very good. But that season, I finished with a bowling average of eight. And it took quite some time for people to notice that by mid-June I had more league wickets than anyone else in Wales (this didn't last because I only played a couple more games that season before breaking my hand)
• Even on the most spin-tailored surface, spinners are rarely given the chance to open the bowling. Now, I recognise how helpful the new ball can be for seamers, but as a spinner it also can add potency to your bowling: the chance of the brand new seam biting off the pitch, or of the smooth, shiny side skidding on. Also of greater drift through the air too. But even on the dustiest of dustbowls, you will never see two spinners open the bowling in the UK unless there are literally no decent seamers in the side.*

This attitude also persists to the professional game, where counties will so often select the spinner who is the better batsman as opposed to the spinner who is the better bowler (for example, Kieran Bull versus Adam Salter at Glamorgan), or else no spinner at all; also, if you look back to Essex's Championship run in 2017, do you remember how much more attention and praise Jamie Porter received than Simon Harmer? It wasn't just because of where Harmer was born.

* The one time that this did happen was the first game I ever bowled off-spin (although the captain didn't know that). I'd already introduced myself as an off-spinner, and we were casting around for some seamers to open the bowling. I answered (truthfully) that "I normally open the bowling for my club", so I was given the new ball at one end; I then persuaded the skipper to give a left-arm spinner a go at the other end so that we'd be turning the ball in opposite directions, rather than giving the new ball to a specialist batsman who bowls a little bit of dibbly-dobbly medium pace. The first result of this was that our over-rate was absolutely ridiculous: we got through sixteen overs in the first half-hour. The other result was that I was allowed to bowl plenty of overs, and finished with 18-4-54-3 which I was incredibly happy with as a first-ever outing of off-spin!

Wow that is an astounding insight. Suggests that as well as the lack of resources for spinners, the general psyche in England seems to be against them too! Far deeper problem than I ever thought it was.
So we still have some way to go before spinners can actually be appreciated as specialist purveyors of their own craft in their own right. Somerset seem to be the only county advocating that right now.

 

[Prequel]

Marnus Labuschagne has really taking massive leaps to becoming a quality all-rounder. 100 with 3 wickets, solid effort on County debut. Queensland needs to bowl him more.

 

[unorthodox]

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I just saw that the team names for The Hundred have been announced.

Manchester Originals, and Oval Greats sounds like biscuits.
Leeds Superchargers sounds like a consortium of electricians.
Southern Brave and Birmingham Phoenix are rubbish.
Welsh Fire and London Spirit sound like alcoholic drinks.
And last but not least, Trent Rockets sounds like a porn star.

 

[stephencox32]

I just saw that the team names for The Hundred have been announced.

Manchester Originals, and Oval Greats sounds like biscuits.
Leeds Superchargers sounds like a consortium of electricians.
Southern Brave and Birmingham Phoenix are rubbish.
Welsh Fire and London Spirit sound like alcoholic drinks.
And last but not least, Trent Rockets sounds like a porn star.

I understand that a modernisation of cricket wants to be tried so that it is made more attractive to crowds who might just have time to “squeeze in” a game after work. An attempt to take cricket from the rural counties to the cities but to me the continued bastardisation of the game is in danger of going too far too quickly. Before long we will be watching a game that is more akin to a game of schoolyard rounders than a game that challenges both body and mind in the ultimate sporting struggle. Not for me this continued tinkering.

 

[wasteyouryouth]

I understand that a modernisation of cricket wants to be tried so that it is made more attractive to crowds who might just have time to “squeeze in” a game after work. An attempt to take cricket from the rural counties to the cities but to me the continued bastardisation of the game is in danger of going too far too quickly. Before long we will be watching a game that is more akin to a game of schoolyard rounders than a game that challenges both body and mind in the ultimate sporting struggle. Not for me this continued tinkering.

Thing is, T20 meets the need of squeezing in a game after work. I don't see The Hundred as being about modernising. It's the ECB desperately chasing money because they can't or don't want to make a success of the Blast in the way India and Australia have successfully achieved with the IPL and BBL.

They can't say not to Sky's golden goose and are stuck in a TV deal that means there's no cricket on terrestrial TV. Interest in cricket is dimishing fast. So they've had to get some marketing bods in to invent a new format of the game that no one wants but Mum's and children will go to (although I understand one reason they often might not go is because of the boozy atmosphere - I don't see that changing). If it's a success and introduces new people to the game that's great but they could have pumped the £6-8million (I think) into the Blast, help counties get some bigger names - to compete with the CPL - try and find a way to get some games on BBC 1/2 at the weekend, or YouTube or just something that allows people that can't afford SKY to see some cricket.

I don't see having city identities as an inherently bad thing, Warwickshire have done it themselves by rebranding as Birmingham. It makes sense in some instances, I think most people think of themselves as a citizen of a town or city rather than a county. But this seems like a big risk that could go embarrassingly wrong and have a detrimental effect on county cricket.