TENNIS Full Ace Tennis

[Deleted member 9102]

This game has by far the most realistic and technical physics/gameplay of any tennis game I've played, including TE/TS/AO/TWT...

It is the only one where the outcome of a shot is totally emergent and physics based, not scripted. You hit the net because the path of the ball was naturally intercepted by it because of the ball physics - this makes hitting a flat shot down the line way more risky than a cross court top spin shot, short angled shots have more chance to hit the net etc... Like in real life.

In the other games, there seems to just be "good shot/bad shot" and "in/error" already decided at the moment of impact, and the ball's path is scripted to fit that predetermined outcome. It is really quite jarring going from playing Full Ace where the ball is so free, then playing one of the more scripted games.

There's room for improvement in a variety of ways, but this has the tennis fundamentals nailed on so much better than anything else there's ever been, bags of potential... Hopefully the console release will be well received.

 

[zimrahil]

This game has by far the most realistic and technical physics/gameplay of any tennis game I've played, including TE/TS/AO/TWT...

It is the only one where the outcome of a shot is totally emergent and physics based, not scripted. You hit the net because the path of the ball was naturally intercepted by it because of the ball physics - this makes hitting a flat shot down the line way more risky than a cross court top spin shot, short angled shots have more chance to hit the net etc... Like in real life.

In the other games, there seems to just be "good shot/bad shot" and "in/error" already decided at the moment of impact, and the ball's path is scripted to fit that predetermined outcome. It is really quite jarring going from playing Full Ace where the ball is so free, then playing one of the more scripted games.

There's room for improvement in a variety of ways, but this has the tennis fundamentals nailed on so much better than anything else there's ever been, bags of potential... Hopefully the console release will be well received.

How is the ball physics implemented? Irl all down to angle of racket hitting the ball, power applied etc to determine trajectory of ball. What does this game use to determine the ball physics after leaving the racket. Not sure if I have explained myself correctly but in any tennis game I have played you can hit slice, spin or flat with varying power, and that’s it. There’s no angle of racket you can control so want to understand what is behind the ball feeling so free as you put it?

 

[Deleted member 9102]

How is the ball physics implemented? Irl all down to angle of racket hitting the ball, power applied etc to determine trajectory of ball. What does this game use to determine the ball physics after leaving the racket. Not sure if I have explained myself correctly but in any tennis game I have played you can hit slice, spin or flat with varying power, and that’s it. There’s no angle of racket you can control so want to understand what is behind the ball feeling so free as you put it?

It's not as complex as modelling everything about the ball/strings collision like you allude to, that would be the holy grail of tennis games .

Full Ace has similar controls, in that you choose topspin/flat/slice, choose where you want the ball to land and with how much power, but the outcomes are not decided in the same way.

In other games, if you have good enough timing/positioning then your shot can never hit the net whatever shot you choose... The game decides if you've executed the shot well enough to avoid an error, and the path the ball takes retrofits to that to avoid the net. In Full Ace, timing and positioning errors only augment the ball trajectory (with varying severity) with the outcome happening as a natural consequence of the shot you chose and the trajectory the ball took.

You could perform a shot absolutely perfectly with your timing and positioning, but if you're trying a shot that simply isn't on, then you're going to miss more often than not - e.g. blasting flat with power down the line, from a low skidding ball on grass.

This means that shot selection depends on many of the same factors as it does in real life - the net is lower in the middle, the court is longer cross-court, as you go shorter with cross-court angles you bring the net into play, you can hit flat into more of the court if the ball is higher etc. Tennis is all about these sorts of shot-selection decisions and Full Ace is the only game to make that feel so natural while playing.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

@zimrahil - This rally illustrates it pretty well I think;

Went cross-court with the return to maximise my margins for getting the ball in play, hit it nicely and force a defensive reply... Notice my opponent's positioning, he's daring me to go for the harder shot down the line next.

Instead I go hard and flat over the lowest part of the net, this puts me in charge of the point by pushing my opponent so far back and keeping him on the defensive. This allows me to go for a safer (but still aggressive) shot to maintain pressure...

Then I try to hit too flat into the open court and catch the top of the net (despite perfect green timing) - on a hardcourt, the opponent's shot would have bounced a bit higher and that shot would have been much safer.

 

[zimrahil]

@zimrahil - This rally illustrates it pretty well I think;

Went cross-court with the return to maximise my margins for getting the ball in play, hit it nicely and force a defensive reply... Notice my opponent's positioning, he's daring me to go for the harder shot down the line next.

Instead I go hard and flat over the lowest part of the net, this puts me in charge of the point by pushing my opponent so far back and keeping him on the defensive. This allows me to go for a safer (but still aggressive) shot to maintain pressure...

Then I try to hit too flat into the open court and catch the top of the net (despite perfect green timing) - on a hardcourt, the opponent's shot would have bounced a bit higher and that shot would have been much safer.

Thanks for those in depth replies, the first reply made perfect sense and the second reply illustrated it well. Cannot argue with it really as that is sort of decision making i want in sports games and just hope the Xbox version will be a worthy representation of the sport

 

[JohnnyDGaming89]

Are console releases done at the same time and... Question (all) what do we feel this game offers that the other two don't... ?

Last time I spoke with him, he had the Xbox dev-kit, but was still waiting on the kit from Sony. I'd say the Xbox version might come first, I guess it will depend if he wants to launch them side by side or not when they are ready.

 

[Nard2020]

See, this is the problem with these "saviors " TE and FA......they are so heavily dependent on mods in order to reach that "holy grail" level YET it's very likely that console players won't get those benefits, thus leaving them with rather rudimentary experiences. Weak graphics, zero license's, lacking animations, minimal presentation......despite the great gameplay, i just don't think that can save it on consoles. I know TE has shot this down, but it would be great if a bigger company could pick this up and wrap it in a sleek, modern and high end package, while maintaining the strong foundation.

In essence, the same issue with TWT having a solid foundation but lacking in almost every other category.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

Let's wait and see what FA and TE bring to the table when they come to consoles... I'm sure the developers know how important editing features would be to the product. Xbox seems more strict on things (see the lack of PES OFs for XB1) but I expect on PS4 there will be plenty of scope to edit.

Even so, I'd rather play vanilla FA/TE with all the fake names, where the gameplay looks/feels like tennis, than something else with real (or community made) players, glitzy UI and a few licenses but with dire gameplay.

If the console players don't get behind either FA/TE4, I'm just glad that sim tennis games are thriving on PC. Two games made by genuine tennis fans...

Looking forward to seeing the TE4 gameplay... Interesting (and long) last post from the developer here about his thoughts on tennis games (mainly TS4);
http://www.managames.com/Forum/topic11-27585.php?start=30#

 

[Nard2020]

Let's wait and see what FA and TE bring to the table when they come to consoles... I'm sure the developers know how important editing features would be to the product. Xbox seems more strict on things (see the lack of PES OFs for XB1) but I expect on PS4 there will be plenty of scope to edit.

Even so, I'd rather play vanilla FA/TE with all the fake names, where the gameplay looks/feels like tennis, than something else with real (or community made) players, glitzy UI and a few licenses but with dire gameplay.

If the console players don't get behind either FA/TE4, I'm just glad that sim tennis games are thriving on PC. Two games made by genuine tennis fans...

Looking forward to seeing the TE4 gameplay... Interesting (and long) last post from the developer here about his thoughts on tennis games (mainly TS4);
http://www.managames.com/Forum/topic11-27585.php?start=30#

Gotta say, i respect that he developed TE, but he is WAY off. Coming from a tennis professional, timing IS important. It's a key factor in your stroke production and great technique can be held back by off timed shots......that's just the reality of real tennis. Sorry bud.

 

[JohnnyDGaming89]

I'm not a fan of how he comes off when people say his game is quite complicated to play in terms of controls, I would hope he changes the weird system in the next version as it's quite difficult to adjust to currently, although he keeps telling people they need to spend time in the training mode. Won't admit the control system is a bit much. I much prefer Full Ace for it's control system, much more user friendly while still being challenging.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

Gotta say, i respect that he developed TE, but he is WAY off. Coming from a tennis professional, timing IS important. It's a key factor in your stroke production and great technique can be held back by off timed shots......that's just the reality of real tennis. Sorry bud.

I prefer having a timing element to the gameplay, but I wouldn't say he's "way off", he has his own vision on tennis gameplay and he explained himself in detail regarding the point you make.

Even if you think he's wrong about the importance of timing, any decent tennis sim should use many more factors to decide shot quality/errors... In TS4/AO (and others) you can play completely the wrong shots from bad positions, but if your timing is ok then you won't make errors... Timing is important, but its not everything.

I think I prefer the overall gameplay and controls of Full Ace, but it's better to have two devs who have their own vision on what makes a good tennis sim, than both to be following a typical formula and/or imitating each other.

 

[Nard2020]

I prefer having a timing element to the gameplay, but I wouldn't say he's "way off", he has his own vision on tennis gameplay and he explained himself in detail regarding the point you make.

Even if you think he's wrong about the importance of timing, any decent tennis sim should use many more factors to decide shot quality/errors... In TS4/AO (and others) you can play completely the wrong shots from bad positions, but if your timing is ok then you won't make errors... Timing is important, but its not everything.

I think I prefer the overall gameplay and controls of Full Ace, but it's better to have two devs who have their own vision on what makes a good tennis sim, than both to be following a typical formula and/or imitating each other.

No, that part he was specifically referring to real tennis and how timing isn't a factor at all...and that IS way off. As for his personal vision and ideas for gameplay, sure, i'm with it. But maybe he needs to clarify, because his paragraphs on gameplay and real tennis were separate.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

No, that part he was specifically referring to real tennis and how timing isn't a factor at all...and that IS way off. As for his personal vision and ideas for gameplay, sure, i'm with it. But maybe he needs to clarify, because his paragraphs on gameplay and real tennis were separate.

Except he didn't say that...

Read it again;

When you start TS4 training mode, you read : "In tennis, timing is everything".

No, it's not. Nadal & Federer aren't the best players because their timing is the best. Did you ever hear that ? No ! It's because they have phenomenal technical skills and mastering of their shot making decisions (ie: do the right type of strikes in the right situation), plus an incredible mental for Nadal, and an incredible consistency for Federer.

A good timing ( = hitting the ball at the correct time) is not a cause, but a consequence : it's the consequence of a good positioning, not rushed preparation, and a body coordination learned from thousands of hours of training (it's called muscle memory).

By inverting the process and making timing the cause, by asking the user to press the button at the "correct time", TS4 (and many other games) fails totally at representing what tennis is about.

On a real court, any decent club player won't have an issue with hitting the ball at the correct time if he's not rushed nor badly positioned.

Being late on the ball means you're late and rushed, not that you mistimed.

Being early on the ball means you hit the ball during its ascending phase because you stand closer to the bounce, but you still hit at the correct time according to that special positioning.

Tennis is not a rhythm nor timing game. It's a technical, physical, mental and strategic game. Failing to see that and thinking that it's only, or mostly, swinging the racket at the correct time is missing an extraordinary game and sport..!

Nowhere here does he say anything along the lines of "timing isn't a factor at all".

In the last paragraph he says tennis is not just a rhythm/timing game, that's far different from what you're implying that he meant.

 

[Deleted member 9102]

A new quiz has been launched by the developer, six free copies will be given to the winners!

https://www.facebook.com/FullAceGam...0.1073741825.127802117231360/1988093727868847

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

A new quiz has been launched by the developer, six free copies will be given to the winners!

https://www.facebook.com/FullAceGam...0.1073741825.127802117231360/1988093727868847

Any idea about the answer? I typed the line behind the game logo but it says incorrect..