Greatest Indian Captain?

[SciD]

Pataudi won us 9 games and overseas victory were against NZ.

 

[King Cricket]

So your main argument in favour of Ganguly is that he unearthed talent, which simply isn't true

My main argument in favour of Ganguly is that he rebuilt the Indian team after all those match fixing scandals, and restored the side's lost confidence. Also, he was the first Indian skipper who showed the world that we are equally good in away grounds as well.

Selectors pick player. Captains don't do that.

I don't know how far this is true, but some months back I recall watching a cricket discussion in a popular 24x7 Bengali news channel called Star Ananda. There amongst the various guests was Gautam Bhattacharya, a prominent sports journalist of Bengal and a near and dear relative of Ganguly. Well, I remember when the show was on, in reply to a question, he once said that at first the selectors were reluctant to include Nehra in the first team of WC 2003, as his records weren't that great. It was Sourav who continued with his attempts in persuading them and kept on stating that his bowling style and technique would indeed be very effective in African pitches. In the end, the selectors changed their mind and chose to go with him. The rest is history. (I don't know how far this is true).

Another significant thing he said was that had it not for Sourav, Dhoni would never have made his debut so early. You remember the Bangladesh tour where MSD made his debut? There, the first preference of majority of the selectors were KKD Kartik and not Dhoni. Again, it was Sourav and another selector who talked about Dhoni's more aggresive style, his effectiveness in the dual role of keeper and batsman and all that. The selectors were finally convinced after hearing all those analysis and picked MSD.

Mr Gautam has infact written a book regarding this which is a complete summary of Sourav's cricketing career. The main base of whatever I'm saying here is that book. You guys will be simply amazed if you read the "2003 World Cup" part where he has described how Sourav used to encourage his players and work for his team in Africa. And what an influence he had on the contemporary team India! Too bad it's written in Bengali!

 

[SciD]

Only player whose place in WC squad was in doubt was Laxman. Nehra was always a certainty as he was in playing XI for whole season.

Noway anyone could have ignored Dhoni for ODIs after what he did in Nairobi and since India was looking to drop Dravid as keeper option seriously.

And I dont trust media on Ganguly as he has had history of using media to settle score against Coaches, Selectors and Administrators.

He is the same guy who chickened out against Aussies on green wicket.

 

[ZoraxDoom]

So your main argument in favour of Ganguly is that he unearthed talent, which simply isn't true. He can't have been the chief selector as well as captain, so didn't personally unearth this talent. He didn't pluck these guys out of obscurity having seen them in the nets and thrown them into International cricket, they all would have performed in Domestic cricket and were picked by the selectors, not solely by Sourav Ganguly.

Umm...actually, Ganguly did do all those things. The selectors did not want the likes of Kaif, Zaheer, Harbhajan or Nehra in the side, because they were too young and inexperienced. Ganguly personally argued to have them in the side, and put his own reputation on the line to get them playing. That's why they all call him Dada, he was the one who was responsible for getting them in the team.

 

[Kar_ind]

for me, its kapil - the only one who bought the world cup for his team.

 

[King Cricket]

Only player whose place in WC squad was in doubt was Laxman. Nehra was always a certainty as he was in playing XI for whole season.

Noway anyone could have ignored Dhoni for ODIs after what he did in Nairobi and since India was looking to drop Dravid as keeper option seriously.

Who knows? That's what he said, and that's what is written in the book. He has infact taken interviews of some of the contemporary selectors where more or less the same thing was said. Dhoni wasn't their first preference, (according to him).

He is the same guy who chickened out against Aussies on green wicket.

He is the same guy who put a fullstop to Steve Waugh's legendary team's winning streak.

 

[Amiya]

Ganguly no doubt was and will be the best captain of India. I still remember that it was only Ganguly who put Sehwag as an opener with Tendulkar and started coming 1st down or so on, leaving his opening slot for him.

 

[SciD]

He is the same guy who put a fullstop to Steve Waugh's legendary team's winning streak.

Laxman, Bhajji and Dravid.

 

[drainpipe32]

Well who do you think it is?

I'd say Sourav Ganguly, during his time as captain he was the right man for the job. During his time as captain he won test series away from home against Pakistan,West Indies,England,Sri Lanka and Australia. Which was probably his biggest achievement giving the Indians self belief to take on oppenents away from home.

yeah, it was a draw

*SLAP*

 

[SciD]

Following are reasons I rate Mahi above Ganguly:

1) Mahi works with administration rather than looking for corners to prove points like Gnaguly did
2) Way better in handling media
3) Backs his player just as much as Ganguly did
4) Does not looses temper
5) Even if things are not going well his head does not drop
6) Has created whole team a single group rather than different groups
7) Does not do idiotic things like coming late for toss
8) Is not hungry for captaincy which Ganguly was. He even could not handle being no more captain of KKR
9) Does not leak things to media and then say with crying face no comments

PS: I did not vote Mahi, I voted Lala Amarnath. And I don't know why because from what I have seen of Indian captains Mahi is way better. Though I will still say Ajay Jadeja would have been best if he had chances.

 

[King Cricket]

1) Mahi works with administration rather than looking for corners to prove points like Ganaguly did.
Works with the administration? Is that why he threatened to resign over the non-inclusion of his "friend", RP Singh in the Indian one-day squad for the last 4 one-dayers of the Hero Honda cup? Wow!

2) Way better in handling media
:sarcasm And that's why all those fiascos happened during the T-20 World Cup.

3) Backs his player just as much as Ganguly did.
Okay, I'm giving you this one.

4) Does not loses temper.
I think everyone here has followed the T-20 World Cup.

5) Even if things are not going well his head does not drop.
And when exactly did Ganguly's head "drop" when things were not going well? Please relate an incident?

6) Has created whole team a single group rather than different groups.
What the hell! Did you follow Indian cricket before Ganguly became the skipper? Then, clashes between seniors and juniors were a very common thing. The team was clearly divided into different groups. Ganguly infact was the guy who united the team to one "Team India".

7) Does not do idiotic things like coming late for toss.
You know why that happened? Because Sourav couldn't find his bloody blazer in the dressing room as some dohing ****** from the team management had kept it in some other place the previous night without informing Ganguly. Going to toss without a blazer makes no sense. True, it refelcts the unprofessional side of our cricket, but it's hardly Sourav's fault.

8) Is not hungry for captaincy which Ganguly was. He even could not handle being no more captain of KKR.
I would request you to clarify this remark a bit. What do you mean by "couldn't handle"? Did he give any statement whatsoever against the KKR team management in the media after they dumped him as the captain? No. He remained silent throughout the season, and tried his best as far as helping the team and McCullam is concerned. (If you don't believe me, you ask the different Bengal players) I have no idea what you are talking about.

9) Does not leak things to media and then say with crying face no comments.
Are you talking about the Greg Chappell e-mail? Well, Sourav didn't leak it. It was leaked by some bloody journalist in whose hands it fell somehow. It's very likely that some narrow-minded top BCCI officials were involved in this as well.

There you go...

 

[SaiSrini]

I agree with sid that I cant rate someone without watching them. Stats dont necessarily speak the true story.

Secondly, I feel ganguly was the guy who was the reason why some of the players like Kaif, Zaheer, Harbhajan, Yuvraj, Sehwag, etc came into the team at that time. He argued for their selection and made sure he had them. And they delivered. It was under Ganguly that Dravid, Tendulkar all performed so well. After Ganguly lost captaincy, even Dravid's form went for a dip and eventually crashed. He did lots of unorthodox things during his captaincy tenure (like making Waugh wait for toss, etc) but he was a tremendously brave captain and wore his heart on his sleeve. The Natwest 2002 final is the best example of the aggression that Ganguly possessed and it worked like hell for India. In fact at that time, India looked truly world beaters and fans could afford to be arrogant of our success.

But I do feel that Ganguly was a dividing force in Team India. Knowing the kind of person he is, I believe in stories that he created groups within the team that eventually led to his sacking. There was a pro-Ganguly wave in the team and when things didnt do Ganguly's way, it created lot of tensions. Also Ganguly is highly arrogant. He couldnt stand Chappell's sincere opinion that he should retire as skipper and focus on batting. Had he not talked about that in the media, the whole episode wouldnt have happened. Chappell was wrong too, but it was Ganguly who all started it.

 

[King Cricket]

I believe in stories that he created groups within the team that eventually led to his sacking

The "groups" you are talking about, they existed from the very day India started playing cricket. There was always a rift between seniors-juniors and etc etc. When actually was there any unity amongst all of our cricketers? Remember the Gavaskar Kapildev episode? Two greatest players to have ever graced the game- yet, remember how they used to fight like kids? It was infact in the early years Sourav's regime when this "group system" was somewhat abolished. But it again became prominent towards the end of the Sourav Ganguly era for some unknown reason. I don't believe in reports which say thar it was Ganguly who created this divide. The team could run smoothly under his leadership for five long years without any trouble whatsoever. Surely, a guy who has run a team with extreme smoothness for nearly five years couldn't possibly have woken up one fine morning and started creating groups- it hardly makes any sense.

Had he not talked about that in the media, the whole episode wouldnt have happened

That's somewhat incorrect. Chappell-Ganguly relationship was never on a high from the very beginning. This is what happens when two great personalities try to work with each other. Ego clash is inevitable in these cases. The latest example is KP and Peter Moores. If two persons ride a horse, one must ride behind- both of them failed to understand this simple truth. But it was the leaking of Chappell's e-mail by some m***********g journalist which made their relationship bitter for ever and was the main cause of all this drama.

 

[SciD]

KC bro I will give you reply just that I am not comfortable writing long essays which you can do. Till then just remember Ganguly was nothing special.