Is building a county side too easy? (ICC09)

[CG123]

You shouldn't be firing half your squad in the first place. No team does a full clean out like that.

Another thing with ICC is that their are just players who will never be good enough so you might as well kick them straight away
i wont mention names but at Lancashire there is a guy with 785 batting 1687 bowling and a guy with 448 bating 1555 bowling plus a few other mud us guys

these guys are just never going to get up to the level to be able to play first class cricket well hense, this was the same case like with 5-10 players in team so i just got rid of them

 

[Myrmecophaga]

I don't think I have yet to fail to get a player on my first bid when just bidding the asking price yet.

 

[CG123]

I don't think I have yet to fail to get a player on my first bid when just bidding the asking price yet.

Ya I hardly ever fail in ICC09 but in ICC08 i thought i seemed to fail quite often. I also found another glitch on ICC08 (probably not really for this thread but ill say it anyway) if someone bids higher than you, you just don't bid again and neither does the other team then the player stays and you can get them.
They fixed it for 09 though which was good.
But i think they are revamping it for ICC 2010 which should be sweet!

 

[Myrmecophaga]

But i think they are revamping it for ICC 2010 which should be sweet!

I'd also like to see most Youth players come in slightly weaker, so that you are obliged to train them a bit.

 

[Hooper]

Hooper and Sureshot, your arguments aren't working - Myrmecophaga has a very valid point.

He shouldn't be forced to not want to buy people just so the game becomes more realistic. I also found that when I play lots of young people I tend to win everything, it has happened a lot. I played as Derbyshire who used to have the worst ratings on ICC06 and after five years we were unbeatable and dominated thanks to some freak regens.

Sureshot, I understand that you are trying to defend your game but you can't use the excuse 'it doesn't happen to me so therefore it can't happen to anyone' with regards to AIs bidding for players.

And also, Hooper, Myr also proved your first point wrong and he is absolutely right. Counties do not fire half their squad in real life, because otherwise they would do terrible and they wouldn't get anywhere. Just stating that counties never fire their squads isn't a fair call - it is a simulator, you should be allowed to do what you want, and if firing half your squad makes you unbeatable in the future then all counties would be doing it in real life.

I agree in the fact that the game is a bit too easy in the future. It wouldn't be impossi ble to tweak - more just the fact that we need to make it 1. Harder to sign very good players and 2. There is too many good regens in the game - especially ones that go unsigned by the team that owns the youth academy. In reality, only the bad regens would be left in the transfer market in the end - yet I find regens with averages from 50-65 at the transfer market that have been discarded by teams.

It's a fun game, but the building up is a bit too easy. Still, I'm having fun.

Yeah, but he's complaining about realism and the fact is that by doing that your not playing properly. By this I mean firing half your squad then buying gun domestic player from other counties at prices only you can afford.

I know its possible to do such, firing half your squad then replacing them with gun players from other clubs, but the game is not designed to be played like that. If your going to do that, then don't complain about the realism and the fact you can win too easily. Of course your going to win, no need to point it out and complain about it.

You said if firing your squad makes you unbeatable in the future then all counties would be doing it...

..We know that. But the Counties don't do it because you simply cannot do that in a professional club environment - it's just not possible. Just because it is possible in the game - doesn't mean you should exploit it.

Another thing with ICC is that their are just players who will never be good enough so you might as well kick them straight away
i wont mention names but at Lancashire there is a guy with 785 batting 1687 bowling and a guy with 448 bating 1555 bowling plus a few other mud us guys

these guys are just never going to get up to the level to be able to play first class cricket well hense, this was the same case like with 5-10 players in team so i just got rid of them

Every county has a few duds though in real life. You can either train them up, use them as backups or as you said - discard them. But by discarding them you have to hire replacements - now, with these replacements you obviously want someone better. But in real life (i.e in cricket clubs, football clubs), you can't just fire someone shite and expect to have the cash to just go out and buy a Freddie Flintoff from the transfer market. Maybe the game should lower the club budget to prevent this. But at the moment I find it pretty good if you do the right thing...

-Fire players who are crap (not half the damn team)
-Look in the transfer market for replacements
-Buy suitable number of batsman, bowlers, keepers
-I only go with Youth Players from my own academy, thats what happens in real cricket (most of the time)
-Don't exploit the transfer system by only giving your team 10k in Coaching, physio and Youth academy. By doing this your going to have too much money to play with in the transfer market and then your hampering your players coaching and your own youth academy (which you should be building up to benefit your club)


But at the end of the day, its up to the gamer to play how he/she wants to play..

...If you don't like it then don't play it and go get Cricket Coach and see how it is building up a side on that game.

 

[CG123]

You make some good points hooper,
budget probably is too high, you can get a squad of say 15 players at about 40,000-60,000 each which is reasonably high in ICC and still put 30000 - 50000 on each of the budgets. You should firstly have to select a squad of 18 not 15 and just fill up the rest of the squad with randoms it makes it way to easy too get too many good players.

Secondly with the youth players, i normally only get 1 - 2 to try out in my squad (norm 1 good 1 bad) and 3 - 4 on the youth player page at end of season. This could be worked on, maybe get a selection of 3 - 4 to have on your squad page so you can follow their progress in the second team, and not get to select other clubs players. At the end of the season when you are only getting 1 player to try out you often have to go and sign players from other clubs if your squad is short.

Also they need to generate some randomness to the game like maybe for each player range their rankings by maybe 300 in each game (except players who have already proven themselves) so you actually need to find out who is good and who is not in your particular save.

 

[Myrmecophaga]

Yeah, but he's complaining about realism and the fact is that by doing that your not playing properly. By this I mean firing half your squad then buying gun domestic player from other counties at prices only you can afford.

I thought playing properly was trying to win, not trying to force realism onto an unrealistic game engine.

I know its possible to do such, firing half your squad then replacing them with gun players from other clubs, but the game is not designed to be played like that. If your going to do that, then don't complain about the realism and the fact you can win too easily. Of course your going to win, no need to point it out and complain about it.

I beg your pardon? Games are generally designed to be played in order to win them. That's why they have scoring systems, other measures of success and the concept of "victory" and so on. I want to be able to do everything I possibly can to succeed in the game, but then not to be guaranteed instant success. I also want that to be fairly realistic. Is the simulator making what works in game work in real life that much to ask for?

You said if firing your squad makes you unbeatable in the future then all counties would be doing it...

..We know that. But the Counties don't do it because you simply cannot do that in a professional club environment - it's just not possible. Just because it is possible in the game - doesn't mean you should exploit it.

Here.

But the fact is that taking a professional sports club, wiping the slate clean and starting again doesn't work to create a totally dominant side inside a few years. Cite the Manchester United side's fortunes after the Munich air disaster: it took 7 years for the club to win the First division again, and that was with some world class players who fortunately survived the crash and also with the considerable draw to players that is that the club is Manchester United, both of which are more than can be said for Glamorgan cricket club.

But at the moment I find it pretty good if you do the right thing...

-Fire players who are crap (not half the damn team)

Remember that we're talking about the Glamorgan second XI. They are pretty much all as bad as the youth players you get when you have fewer than 18 players in your squad.

-Look in the transfer market for replacements
-Buy suitable number of batsman, bowlers, keepers

Did that

-I only go with Youth Players from my own academy, thats what happens in real cricket (most of the time)

Here is where we differ. Of my first XI I've got 2 players signed straight from the youth section on the transfers, 1 all-rounder and my 'keeper; 3 were signed after playing a year and a half or so, in the normal transfer market; 4 were from my on club's youth team; 1 is Harris, who was already in the side (but essentially a youth player) and an overseas player. My problem isn't so much that these players were available (though too many were available), but that they were so good right from the very start.

-Don't exploit the transfer system by only giving your team 10k in Coaching, physio and Youth academy. By doing this your going to have too much money to play with in the transfer market and then your hampering your players coaching and your own youth academy (which you should be building up to benefit your club)

I didn't

...you don't like it then don't play it and go get Cricket Coach and see how it is building up a side on that game.

Is that the attitude then? Never mind that you have to be the simulator to the game's database, rather than the player to the game's simulator, the other games on the market aren't good in this respect either.

I would suggest that to sort out this problem:

1. More youth players, but fewer good ones, so that you have to really focus on training the majority of them up to be god for first class cricket.
2. Because there are fewer good ones, but more of them, you have to rely on the weaker players coming good, so the risk element and the level of discretion required is increased, meaning that it is possible to fail to build a good side.
3. Fewer good players overall should mean that clubs snap up their own academy's good players more often.
4. Fewer good players in their early twenties going onto the market.
5. A bigger element of player discretion. Players should be more interested in going to better clubs if they cannot go to their local one

 

[Hooper]

Remember that we're talking about the Glamorgan second XI. They are pretty much all as bad as the youth players you get when you have fewer than 18 players in your squad.

Exactly my point. You get what your given, to do something with them would be more enjoyable then wiping them all then bringing in players from other counties? No?

My problem isn't so much that these players were available (though too many were available), but that they were so good right from the very start.

So you were lucky then? You should be happy, I don't ever get gun youth players even though I've always tried.

Anyways, at the end of the day its peoples preferences and maybe these things will be changed in the future.

 

[Myrmecophaga]

Exactly my point. You get what your given, to do something with them would be more enjoyable then wiping them all then bringing in players from other counties? No?

My point is that, in reality, you actually do get what you given, and if you sacked everyone, you just get worse coming back into the side. In ICC its all too easy just to skip past that stage, and I find that deliberately making life harder for yourself sucks the fun out of it, because suddenly your not actually trying to win.

Would the game be such good fun if to make the matches difficult you had to play the second team?

 

[Hooper]

I don't know anymore.

I think we've argued the point enough.

 

[blake]

Hooper.. I understand what you are trying to say but it simply does not work like that.

I'll put it as bluntly as possible.

The aim of a game is to win, using any means possible. If there is something in a game that can let you win, why would you not want to use it?

You can't just use the excuse "oh, that's not realistic so you shouldn't do it" because the game should be good enough to make sure nothing unrealistic can occur.

End.

 

[Hooper]

Yeah, I know that blake. I know the game shouldn't be like that, I'm just offering a way to get around and it (by not exploiting it).

 

[blake]

Fair enough.

 

[Isura]

Hooper.. I understand what you are trying to say but it simply does not work like that.

I'll put it as bluntly as possible.

The aim of a game is to win, using any means possible. If there is something in a game that can let you win, why would you not want to use it?

You can't just use the excuse "oh, that's not realistic so you shouldn't do it" because the game should be good enough to make sure nothing unrealistic can occur.

End.

It's boring to pummel the CPU AI repeatedly. Some of us play the game for a challenge. Imposing 'house rules' can enhance gameplay and make up for shortcomings in the game.

 

[blake]

Well if you want to play the game for a challenge, that's fine by me. I have no problem with that whatsoever. However, this could be considered a glitch or exploit. Just because you personally don't use the glitch or exploit doesn't make the game perfect. Once they fix this, it will completely remove this problem making it completely fair. There will always be people who will try and do anything possible to win - look at all the hacks for online games. This would just help to erase it.