Jan 3-7: 5th Test: Australia v England at Sydney

[War]

It's not so much about keeping the ball upright, that is only needed when you are trying to swing or get seam movement. As long as you are landing the ball on the side you want then you will be able to get the asymmetry between the two sides. The majority of bowlers are able to do this but Johnson is vastly different and it's common knowledge as the commentators have mentioned in the past that Johnson has no idea which side the ball is landing and hence makes it difficult to keep one side shiny. Spinners bowl alot slower so there impact on the ball would be a lot less compared to a Johnson.

As for who was shinning the ball, I didn't pay attention but I highly doubt that they would have no one doing it. The reason everyone is harping on about Cook shinning the ball is because he sweats the less of the players and hence his hand will be the driest.

I hear you sylvester & its an interesting & very plausible theory. But i dont know if i buy it fully since you are basically saying Johnson is single handedly responsible for the other AUS bowlers not getting consistent swing (conventionally or reverse) all series. That seem a bit extreme dont you think?.

Since again i think back to the in SA & Ashes 09 summer when Hilfenhaus was getting all the swing. Johnson was playing all those games.

Plus the 09/10 home summer & 2008 tour to IND when Watson was getting all his reverse-swing. Johnson was playing all those games.

So im not sure, if we really put all those problems of the entire pace attack down the Johnson's inability to know where he will make the ball land on the surface.

 

[Krypta]

Did Australia swing the ball at all in the 2nd test when Johnson didn't play?

 

[aussie1st]

I hear you sylvester & its an interesting & very plausible theory. But i dont know if i buy it fully since you are basically saying Johnson is single handedly responsible for the other AUS bowlers not getting consistent swing (conventionally or reverse) all series. That seem a bit extreme dont you think?.

I'm not saying hes the sole reason, there are a heap of other reasons such as the batsmen smashing the ball around, the pitch, the other bowlers, overhead conditions, etc. But he is definitely part of the problem. That is not to say we can't ever reverse it as we have shown we can but the only time our reverse swing has looked threatening is when Lee was doing it, mostly because of his pace.

I don't remember much of Hilfy reverse swinging it but obviously it was no where near as lethal as the reverse swing we saw in this test or from Jones and Flintoff. In part that it is to do with the bowler and it is also to do with how much more shiny one side is to the other.

 

[angryangy]

Yeah I remember that Johnson theory too; it was a lot more clear cut before that South Africa tour. I think that maybe he can impede swing in conditions where it is easy to scuff the ball. If for example you have conditions that will definitely swing for anyone or even a ball that needs to see the lacquer off it, then it's a different story.

 

[War]

Did Australia swing the ball at all in the 2nd test when Johnson didn't play?

Nope.

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I'm not saying hes the sole reason, there are a heap of other reasons such as the batsmen smashing the ball around, the pitch, the other bowlers, overhead conditions, etc. But he is definitely part of the problem. That is not to say we can't ever reverse it as we have shown we can but the only time our reverse swing has looked threatening is when Lee was doing it, mostly because of his pace.

I don't remember much of Hilfy reverse swinging it but obviously it was no where near as lethal as the reverse swing we saw in this test or from Jones and Flintoff. In part that it is to do with the bowler and it is also to do with how much more shiny one side is to the other.

Ye well fair enough then syl.