Old Problems in Cricket's New World

cricket_icon

International Cricketer
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
I've been inactive on this forum for far too long due to university and life getting in the way but with the excess of cricket I've witnessed over the last couple months, with South Africa in the UAE and then at home against Pakistan, then straight onto India, not to mention back to back Ashes and the West Indies, I thought it was about time I posted some of my thoughts on what I've seen. These may be totally irrelevant and you may disagree completely on what I have to say but I just had to write it down.

First of all, let's start with the once kings of test cricket, England, the golden generation, a team with exquisite swing bowlers and go getting batsmen...or so we thought. There were signs of their, dare I say it...weak nature as long ago as 2011, when they were befuddled by the brilliance of Ajmal and co in the UAE. This was an inferior Pakistan team, one of the worst in the last 15 years, lacking any of the sheering pace of Akram, Younis, Akhtar or either the lesser Sami, their best young player, a certain Muhammad AMir no longer played the game. Yet England looked lost at sea in almost every session in the 3 match series. They were out bowled, out batted at times and utterly humiliated.

What does that prove? That England can't play superior spin? "Hey, we all knew that anyway!" I hear you shout and you would be right. We all knew of the national teams inability to play masterful spinners, evidenced by decades of terror from Warne, Murali and Mushtaq (both of them) but that wasn't the biggest issue. It was the fact that the entire team looked like they had already conceded the series after the first test. Yes there were moments of resilience, Broad cropped up with some important spells, as he often does, and the ever reliable (then) Trott and Cook set about trying to rebuild during recurrent collapses but it was never enough. It wasn't just a lack of ability, i twas a lack of balls, cahoonas, grapefruits or whatever you would like to call it.

We are now seeing the exact same problem in the Ashes down under, by way of an embarrassing home defeat to South Africa. Once again, as was the case then, it is now, England have shown the inability to fight their way out of a hole, to rip themselves free of the chains of defeat. It's what great teams do, it's what the Windies had to do on several occasions at their peak, it's what Australia had to do on numerous occasions and most recently it's what the Saffers did in response to a strong start by Pakistan in the UAE. Great teams are forged in fire lit by lesser outfits. England may just be that lesser outfit.

Now don't get me wrong, England managed to beat Australia home AND away in the not to distant past but that was against a team still trying to find their footing, with players, batsmen and bowlers, out of form, a team dragged kicking and screaming by a resourceful captain who was also a great batsman. Clarke can now rely on an inform Johnson and a batting line up which seems to know it's role. This may all be temporary, what happens when Johnson is out of form and Australia's batsmen look lost at sea again? Time will tell but till then all we have to go on is the frigidity of England's batsmen and the verbal virginity of their bowlers. Have they ever heard of, "Give as good as you get"?

Now to transition smoothly onto South Africa and Pakistan. In test cricket, in the UAE anyway, they have looked like equals on 2 separate occasions. South Africa's batsmen have looked a class above and Pakistan's bowlers have, at times, looked truly special. Heck, they have unearthed yet another, 90mph quick with good control and some decent swing. Is there a Chinese factory somewhere that makes these people? The ODI series' however were more one sided, with South Africa handling Pakistan well in the UAE and with Pakistan returning the favour 2-1 in South Africa.

There were moments when both teams showed their old, ugly faces. The inadequate batting of Pakistan reared up again, time after time. Yet in the hostile conditions of Africa, they managed to string together some decent performances...before slumping back to basics yet again. South Africa's problem isn't batting or bowling but rather the dreaded choke. It's something they don't experience in test cricket but in the ODI game, tight match after tight match, they seem to lose their heads, as they showed against Pakistan in the 2nd ODI. When it looks like the Proteas will win, they find a way to lose.

And finally, to India we go...or they come to us. You see, India has a problem as old as the conundrum of how to answer, "does my bum look big in this?". India are a force to be reckoned with at home, barely losing, their batting a behemoth or 300+ scores and double centurions on a regular basis. All that changes when they leave the confines of the Indian subcontinent and travel to far, exotic lands such as England, Australia and South Africa. Here, their batsmen play like Pakistanis and looks like rabbits caught in the headlights. The swagger, the brilliance, the arrogance and the stroke play eludes them, it's a problem for which they have no solution. These are some of the best batsmen on the planet, how can they be replaced? Answer: they can't.

The bigger or possibly biggest issue is the impotence of their bowlers, India has never had a true pace bowler, not one who can be consistent for a long period of time anyway. Some many have come and gone and for some reason the BCCI persists with the long haired nuisance of Sharma, a clear indication of a bowling drought. Without a decent bowling attack, one to rival at the very least the lesser test nations of West Indies and Bangladesh, India can not and will not consistently win away from home, especially against the top opposition. How many times can their batsmen put on scores of 300+? Outside of the flat tracks of Asia, not many.

So cricket has changed a lot since I first started watching it, Australia are no longer the dominant force, India is now a major stake holder in the games finances, South Africa dominate the test arena and Pakistan have started to win more consistently. But the old problems persist, the Saffers still stutter when it matters, Pakistan still bat as effectively as a one legged man in an arse kicking competition, Australia can still be mean, India is still terrible away from home and England are still too easily cowed.

Ahh well, at least it's still cricket.
 

Skater

ICC Chairman
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Profile Flag
England
There aren't, in my opinion, any truly great teams in Test cricket right now. In the past there was of course the West Indies of the 80s and the Australians sides of more recent times, who would dominate as a routine. Now there are teams like England, South Africa, Australia and India who are all pretty evenly matched. I don't think that's a bad thing at all.
 

cricket_icon

International Cricketer
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
There aren't, in my opinion, any truly great teams in Test cricket right now. In the past there was of course the West Indies of the 80s and the Australians sides of more recent times, who would dominate as a . Now there are teams like England, South Africa, Australia and India who are all pretty evenly matched. I don't think that's a bad thing at all.

I think South Africa stands out in that they have beaten almost all comers at home and done extremely well away from home, not losing a series in a LONG time. Australia have shown some resilience at home and England have been consistent at home. India are just terrible away and very good at home.

I think it's actually more even in ODI cricket, with any of the top 5 or 6 teams having the ability to beat one another, home and away.

Definitely not a bad thing.
 

StinkyBoHoon

National Board President
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
I think the point about england being beat by an inferior pakistan side is off. that was a very consistent pakistan team, it lacked the razzle dazzle of previous teams but on form they were the no.2 team in the world at that point and given england had already been exposed against that spin in the SC, falling to it against an indian side they'd mangled at home just a month before, I know a few people here, myself included, that didn't expect them to come out of that series with a win.

for me, I'd like to see what this india team can do over the next year before I draw conclusions on their batting. I think they have good batsmen with renewed hunger, I don't think they'll do very well against south africa but against NZ and england, maybe. certainly would be nice to see them play an away test before we get the old "they can't play away" thing already. they did win the CT in england just 6 months ago.
 

Lebanna

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I think South Africa stands out in that they have beaten almost all comers at home and done extremely well away from home, not losing a series in a LONG time. Australia have shown some resilience at home and England have been consistent at home. India are just terrible away and very good at home.

I think it's actually more even in ODI cricket, with any of the top 5 or 6 teams having the ability to beat one another, home and away.

Definitely not a bad thing.

Interestingly their record at home isn't quite as good as well. They are probably the only Test nation to do better away than at home.

SA since Dec 2008:

P W L D W/L
Away: 21 10 3 8 3.33
Home: 20 11 6 3 1.83
 

cricket_icon

International Cricketer
Joined
Apr 13, 2011
Interestingly their record at home isn't quite as good as well. They are probably the only Test nation to do better away than at home.

SA since Dec 2008:

P W L D W/L
Away: 21 10 3 8 3.33
Home: 20 11 6 3 1.83

Yes but SA have still own series' at home, the same way they have away from home. I'm not saying they're the new Australia but they are currently the best side on the planet bar none.

I think the point about england being beat by an inferior pakistan side is off. that was a very consistent pakistan team, it lacked the razzle dazzle of previous teams but on form they were the no.2 team in the world at that point and given england had already been exposed against that spin in the SC, falling to it against an indian side they'd mangled at home just a month before, I know a few people here, myself included, that didn't expect them to come out of that series with a win.

for me, I'd like to see what this india team can do over the next year before I draw conclusions on their batting. I think they have good batsmen with renewed hunger, I don't think they'll do very well against south africa but against NZ and england, maybe. certainly would be nice to see them play an away test before we get the old "they can't play away" thing already. they did win the CT in england just 6 months ago.

I don't think the India not playing away from home is a theory or any such thing, it's a simple fact. When was the last time India beat a top team away from Asia in text cricket??
ODI cricket, tournaments and ultimately pitches are docile all over the world, it's not really that big a point that India won the CT. It's not to be a dampener on India's parade but ODI cricket is far removes from the test arena, where India have constantly faltered outside of the parameters of the subcontinent.

England v Pak told us, as you correctly put, that Pakistan were a decent team at the time but England still lacked fight, a top dog with no bite. That is unacceptable, they then showed the same attitude against SA and almost faltered against a barely mediocre NZ.
 

StinkyBoHoon

National Board President
Joined
Mar 5, 2009
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
your post, which is well written by the way, totally depends on being able to apply narratives on to events to show some sort of pattern, but there isn't actually that much evidence for your narratives, you've just depended on the cliched ubiquity of them.

you say england didn't show much "fight" in pakistan but over the course of the year they played several series in the sub-continent and showed improvement each step of the way, culminating in a win in india which is among the most impressive achievements they've managed. that to me, shows good planning and a will to improve and conquer challenges. things that could be considered "fight".

if you're looking at india then you have to look at them through the prism of the wholesale changes they've made to the side. it's a young team with new key players in every department, most importantly, it's not played an away test in well over a year. "it's a simple fact"? what is the fact? because you can only guess how most of their top 6 will do abroad using conjecture.

trust me, when south africa beat india, which they will, you will see fine examples of applying thoughtless narrative. south africa have ran through everyone, on occassions bowling teams out for ridiculous embarrassing scores, but india this month will be the team that suffered these fates because they're technically inept away from home, whereas when NZ got bowled out for less than 50 it was just because SAF were really good.
 

War

Chairman of Selectors
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Online Cricket Games Owned
England were never # 1, lets never confuse ourselves about this, since this is a mistake a lot of cricket fans and journalist make. The poor cricket ranking system told us that.

English cricket after the Moores/Pietersen saga between West Indies 2009 - Pakistan 2010 where the embryonic stages of the Strauss/Flower partnership and development. No one in their right mind was ranking or speaking of England as anything close to best team in the world then and rightly so because they had alot players who did not convince the world they were good all-round players.

The 2010/11 Ashes win regardless of how far this team goes in the future, will be regarded by historians im sure as the starting point of this teams greatness. Thats why the West Indies 76-91 dynasty is always started in 1976 in England and AUS 95-2007 dynasty also begins from the 95 win in the Caribbean.

Players for ENG like Anderson, Tremlett, Cook, Bell, Bresnan came of age in Ashes 2010/11. The faulty ICC ranking system which judges form of the a short two year period, does not recongize this and its has incorrectly made a correlation with ENG of between of WI 09 - PAK 2010 to ENG between AUS 2010/11 - IND 2011. Those are two completely different ENG teams that one cannot compare.

This new ENG team had not won enough series to reach that accolade when they beat india 4-0 in 2011 , since they were only 8 months into their potential dynasty.

Now when they struggled in Pakistan in the 2012 winter tour, people began to question their # 1 ranking, when in fact they never were never the # 1.


We should never underrate how crappy the ranking system is because for example if Australia had beaten S Africa in the 2012/13 at home in the Perth test, they would have become # 1 test team. And the ICC CEO Dave Richardson, would have brought that big long to present it Clarke. Now how ridiculous that would have looked to think AUS based on how badly they have been in recent times b4 the current Ashes, could have actually been called # 1 test team again?

This is why the ICC test championship is so key now, because in this post AUS dominant world, our ranking system cannot adequately determine who is # 1 team in any format.

As SBH said also, after the PAK lost, ENG improved gradually in the subcontinent in 2012 drawing in SRI & winning in India.

Them losing to S Africa just proves S Africa are a notch ahead of them. But i sure many ENG fans would say that ENG would want a rematch vs the S Africans because soon - because the Pietersen saga messed up ENGs focus in that series.

However since the India series win, ENG have been been very patch in 2013 - their batsman especially being below par. I personally just think they are having a bad year - although i fear Trott was facing the biggest technique test of his career with handling the short ball, before revelations about his mental health arose.

With S Africa, if we cut right to the meat of the problem - one of the main reasons their ODI/T20 team are not as dominant as their test team is because of their quota policy. While black/coloured players like Petersen/Duminy/Tahir/Amla/Philander are in the test team because they are the best in their respective role (Peterson under pressure of late) - they are many black/colured players who get picked in their ODI/T20 over better white players & this messes up their performances as we say with them in the Champs trophy & t20 world cup.

Their current ODI series in India was one the best balanced ODI teams they have picked in a while, where i would say all the players despite colour was in on merit.

Finally on India - their problems away from home are obvious & I agree with you cricket_icon their champ trophy win, isn't a good barometer to how they would go in overseas test. ODI and test performances in most cases don't mix.

As i always say since England beat them at home in 2012, they had it easy in 2013 in tests. The flaws ENG exposed have not been tested by facing an awful windies test team recently & poorly selected AUS test team this year.

They now are in a period starting with this S Africa tour & then way to NZ, ENG, AUS when they new young batsmen will be properly tested vs good fast bowlers of varying skills & we will finally know how good they are.

Despite the talent of Kohli, Sharma, Dhawan etc people seem to under-rate that the recent IND batting era of Tendy/Dravid/VVS/Ganguly/Azharuddin was the most complete group of batsmen IND has produced in their test history at one period, who were solid enough overseas & home - Tendy & Dravid being the standouts of course.

Even while these big 5 were playing many players like Sehwag, Kambli, Manjrekar, Ghandi, Bhardwaj, Kanitkar, Yuvraj, Badani, Jaffer, Raina, Das, Ramesh, Jadeja, Mukund, Gambhir who got chances around the "big 5" either got injured, missed a series or even got dropped (Ganguly and Azhar) - looked out of their depth or fell off dramatically after bright periods.

So this is clear sign how good the big 5 were & how difficult it could be to replace them.

Before that India had just a few batsmen in a period who were good - Gavaskar/Viswanth/Vengsarkar in 70s & 80s - Umrigar/Borde/Nawad Pataudi in the 60s - Hazare/Umrigar in the 50s - Hazare only in post war early 50s - and these guys were surrounded by many players who were jokers overseas.

Replacing such a dynasty can be tricky as proven with other sides in history. India have never come close yet to replacing their lethal spin quartet of the 70s - Windies have not produced the same about of world class quicks since 1991 - Australia since 2006, their exciting young batsmen did not step up as expected - Pakistan can't yet find an opening pair replacement since Anwar/Sohail in the 90s - ENG could not find a adequate Botham replacement in over a decade until Flintoff emerged etc etc...

Im not writing off Kohli & co but historical evidence with India batsmen should tell us, one should not have any strong confidence in their young batsmen unless they conquer the away test tours test on 2014. That i don't think is a unfair proposition.
 
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