The greatest ever Test innings under pressure of the modern era

[Insomniac]

It's a losing battle. You think an Ind-Pak series is more important, I think an Ashes series is more important, it's just personal bias. Two very important innings. I suppose it will be up to the neutrals to decide which one was better.

How many neutrals do we have who aren't English, British, Indian, or Pakistani

What if we were to say that an Ind-Pak and an Ashes series were at par with each other, since in both series, both sides are arch-enemies.

Then what would / should be the deciding factor as to whether Kevin Pietersen joins Kamran Akmal and VVS Laxman?

 

[Insomniac]

Do I count as a neutral; living in England and supporting India. Personally, I think the Ashes is a million times more important - the India Vs Pakistan Test series in 2007 had very little atmosphere but each Ashes has a buzz around it. The Ashes also benefits from a vast history too.

Eh?

We also have a vast history manee

One thing I have to say is that India-Pakistan series manage more viewers on TV than the Ashes.

Now various reasons can be for that is that the Ashes is only on Sky now, and Pakistan and India's populations are quite high.

We'd also have to combine the number of viewers in Australia for that 2005 Ashes...

zMario added 2 Minutes and 49 Seconds later...

Atherton's amazing vigil against the Saffers in 1995. Batted for about 4 months to save the Test. Amazing show of grit and determination.

Now these are the type of innings I'm talking about

The only difference I will say between him and Akmal and Laxman is that he always had support from the other end IIRC.

And his side wasn't trailing by 300 or 39-6 in the first hour of a test

 

[Sureshot]

Combined population of Aus and the UK is about 80 million, as opposed to the 1.3 billion or so combined population of India and Pakistan? Slight difference

Tbf, when Akmal came in, he got support from Razzaq and Shoaib. It wasn't as though he was an opening batsman who fought through to 39-6, though I am not belittling his effort.

Also, KPs Ashes innings is up there with Laxman's and Akmal's. Whether you think it is better is a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[.Mob]

And Cricketman. Kamran Akmal and VVS Laxman are both at the same level with their respective knocks. Both saved their teams at a desperate time.

But I definitely feel VVS's was more special, not only because he infinitely more flair than Akmal, because however good the track could have been for the bowlers, you can't compare India's attack when Akmal played that awesome innings to the Aussie attack that VVS faced.

The attack that VVS faced was one of the best of our generation.

 

[evertonfan]

I think i'm actually gonna side with Akmal's on this. Now i'm no expert on India-Pakistan relations, but the India Pakistan series is as big as gets for those sides right? So when Pakistan were 40 for 6 or whatever it was when Akmal came in they were in ruins and surely headed for a series defeat against their arch enemies. That is an unbelievable amount of pressure.

Laxman against Australia is different. India and Australia isn't as fierce a rivalry and the expectation to beat Australia was more in hope than genuine beliief so if India had lost that match I don't think it would have been as bad as if Akmal had failed and Pakistan lost that game.

My final point is in the abilities of the players. Laxman is one of the finest batsman of the nineties and early noughties and was a genuine world class player at the time. Kamran Akmal is not. His wicket keeping is pretty shoddy at times and his batting is hardly world class either. So for him to come in at 40 for 6 and do what he did was incredible and it's why I rate it higher than Laxman's.

 

[.Mob]

Not really, it was India vs Aus at India, in front of a nutcase Kolkatta crowd, and we may have not been as fierce as right now, but it was still pretty huge and would have been embarrassing. But I can definitely see where you come from in your points, I just disagree.

Plus, VVS had a bigger endurance job too, 281 is a huge score, the most by any Indian at the time, but I suppose you could argue that VVS had company in Dravid and that Akmal had substantially less in having to shepherd the tail, but I'm a biased *******, so I still disgaree.

 

[evertonfan]

I think it's fair to say that bias plays a massive part in these part of debates so it doesn't bother me really. It's only natural that people side with their country's innings.

Some of my recent favourites from England;

-Pietersen 158 vs Aus @ the Oval 2005
-Giles (not sure how many) vs Aus @ Trent Bridge 2005
-Flintoff 95 vs SA @ the Oval 2003
-Butcher 177* vs Aus @ Headingley 2001
-G.Jones 70 vs Aus @ Lords 2005 (one day tri series final)
-Thorpe (100andsomething) vs WI @ Barbados (I think? The game when Hoggy got a hat-trick) 2004

Yay for England!

 

[RoboRocks]

I would say Pietersen is top of the list with all the pressure of that final day when we were all biting our nails to whether England were going to win the ashes and we were in trouble when KP came in with Vaughan and Bell gone in successive deliveries and facing a hat-trick ball from McGrath.

Akmal would be close behind as you guys mentioned but one I would like to point out is the innings played by Wavell Hinds against South Africa in early 2005 when the WI had the big names out with contract issues and sent out a depleted side with Chanderpaul as captain and Hinds played an innings I thought was top class. Chanderpaul also got 200 in his first game as captain and Hinds got 213 off 297. It might not of been in a crisis but I remember watching it and it was outstanding.

 

[evertonfan]

Oh yeah, Smith's at Edgbaston a couple of weeks ago as well. Great knock.

 

[RoboRocks]

Oh yeah, Smith's at Edgbaston a couple of weeks ago as well. Great knock.

Yes forgot about that. I don't like Smith as a person but he played a brilliant captains innings when they were under pressure, and after losing wickets, he was able to bat and compile a big 150 and see his side to a great victory.

 

[Insomniac]

I'm not too sure how Hind's innings comes into this, since he had Pagon and Chanderpaul.

While it was a pressure knock, it wasn't all that special. I do remember watching it, and he played some quite good shots with a great mentality (I do wonder why he fell out with the selectors).

Now I'm going to respond to .Mob's comment about the Eden Gardens crowd - Karachi was absolutely jampacked in 2006, where we saw Pathan take a hat-trick.

Now getting to India's bowling - if one of your bowlers took a hat-trick in that game, I'd say he's in great form and bowling well. And Zaheer is definitely not bad either, as he has shown many times. Then there was Kumble with all his experience.

Regarding Graeme Smith - I know Smith was chasing a pretty big total for a 4th innings and all, but it still doesn't go all the way up there if you know what I mean. I guess what I mean to say is, yes it was good, but it wasn't as high as Laxman or Akmal.

If I was to assume that an India-Pakistan series is at the same scale as the Ashes, then yes, Kevin Pietersen will go right up there alongside Kamran Akmal and VVS Laxman.

I guess the only reason I am being slightly biased against KP is that England didn't win the match, although they didn't need to. (To win The Ashes - I keep forgetting England were 2-1 up going into that 5th test)

 

[aussie_ben91]

Matthew Hayden's 138 against England in the final Test of the 2005 Ashes series.

Added to the fact that the English players were illegally shinning the ball and that the players constantly had to go off the field due to bad weather.

Australia's batsman had struggled all series long and we were finally greeted with a classic Hayden & Langer 100 run-stand partnership.

Great show of determination that saved his career.

 

[smssia0112]

As long as we're talking about big Ashes innings, how can you go past Ponting's 156 in the third test? Saved us from a sure loss and ensured a draw. It was also the first Aussie century in the series, and he batted for almost the entire day.

 

[Will_NA]

Some of my recent favourites from England;

-Giles (not sure how many) vs Aus @ Trent Bridge 2005

Amen

 

[Insomniac]

As long as we're talking about big Ashes innings, how can you go past Ponting's 156 in the third test? Saved us from a sure loss and ensured a draw. It was also the first Aussie century in the series, and he batted for almost the entire day.

Matthew Hayden's 138 against England in the final Test of the 2005 Ashes series.

Added to the fact that the English players were illegally shinning the ball and that the players constantly had to go off the field due to bad weather.

Australia's batsman had struggled all series long and we were finally greeted with a classic Hayden & Langer 100 run-stand partnership.

Great show of determination that saved his career.

Erm, I don't think Pontings 156 goes with VVS Laxman's 281 or Kamrans 109 (from 39/6)

And neither will the Hayden & Langer parntership...

I think we've really set the par low now -

We're looking for those AMAZING knocks - Kamran Akmal's 100 from 39/6, VVS Laxman's 281 from trailing by 300, I guess KP's innings can go, as dubious as I'll say that is, because while his team was struggling at 79-3 with McGrath on a hat-trick, he really never had to be in a situation from trailing by 300 or at 39/6.

And that 39/6 was against India, like KP was facing Australia, so that takes out that argument IMO.