West Indies Team Discussion

[Satan666]

Some of it is his fault too. But I'm glad to see him get runs. Hope continues his good form, if he can keep it up then a recall isn't far away. Roston Chase bowled superbly, but his main role in the team, when he does return, should be as a batsman who can bowl a bit rather than the main spin option.

Saying ‘some of it is his fault too’ and not listing it is like the guys from the other islands destroying Trinidad players throughout the decades.

 

[qpeedore]

Saying ‘some of it is his fault too’ and not listing it is like the guys from the other islands destroying Trinidad players throughout the decades.

I didn't think I need to explicitly state a lack of performances, but okay.

He had a couple of questions about fitness early on, but that's since changed. And while he's still nowhere near the sort of fielding level you would expect an international cricketer to be at, he's a lot better than he was at the start of his career. Guy couldn't catch a cold at one point.

 

[Satan666]

I didn't think I need to explicitly state a lack of performances, but okay.

He had a couple of questions about fitness early on, but that's since changed. And while he's still nowhere near the sort of fielding level you would expect an international cricketer to be at, he's a lot better than he was at the start of his career. Guy couldn't catch a cold at one point.

So youre telling me he got the drop cuz his fielding was so poor that his exceptional batting as compared to failures (mostly Bajans) were grounds enough? Fitness, yeah you grasping for straws man!

 

[qpeedore]

Bravo wasn't always exceptional with the bat. He went through some lengthy rough patches overs the years.

And this isn't an inter-island debate. That's been done to death ever since the West Indies started playing cricket.

 

[Satan666]

Bravo wasn't always exceptional with the bat. He went through some lengthy rough patches overs the years.

And this isn't an inter-island debate. That's been done to death ever since the West Indies started playing cricket.

Agreed he went through lenghty periods of rough patches due to mismanagement by the WICB!

Inter-island debate, but thats the crux of it buddy and agreed it had existed ever since, even Lara was abused in his hey day. Dont shun from the obvious!

 

[qpeedore]

Agreed he went through lenghty periods of rough patches due to mismanagement by the WICB!

Inter-island debate, but thats the crux of it buddy and agreed it had existed ever since, even Lara was abused in his hey day. Dont shun from the obvious!

I'm not generally a supporter of much of anything the WICB does, so no worries there.

Lara had many naysayers, agreed.

I'm not shunning anything, it's just that it's an argument that never ends. No matter what team is picked, there will always be people who aren't happy. Right now Barbados has the nod with the strongest players for Test cricket - Brathwaite, Holder, Roach, Mayers. Yes, it features more Bajans than other countries, but it's a competitive team. You cannot say that Roach and Holder don't deserve their spots just based on performances alone. Mayers has potential and form, and Brathwaite has the leadership, as exemplified by his attacking intent all through the day today. Barbados won the last 4-Day competition, sort of, after the competition was cut short due to the pandemic.

Look at who won the competition the years before that...Guyana. There are no Guyanese in the Test team, although they feature in limited overs. Hetmeyer is about the only one who immediately springs to mind. Tage Chanderpaul still has a couple years to go before he's ready for the international scene, and Chandrapaul Hemraj just doesn't look cut out for international cricket. Keemo Paul and Romario Shepherd both are better limited overs bowlers than the longer formats, although they are still young enough to adapt.

So, yeah, you have to go with the Bajans first right now, and I have zero problems with that. Guyana apart, is represented pretty proportionally - Gabriel, da Silva and Bravo from Trinidad, Joseph and Cornwall from the Leewards (Antigua specifically), Blackwood, Bonner and Campbell from Jamaica (although I'm still unsure why the last keeps his spot), and the solitary Windward representative in Warrican.

I mean, if you add Shai Hope and Roston Chase into the mix then it becomes heavily Barbados-skewed. But might I remind you of part of the playing XI in the last ODI - Lewis, Bravo, Pooran, Mohammed, Pollard, Phillip, Hosein. Fully 7 out of 11 players came from Trinidad and Tobago. And that's okay, we won the Super50 easily this year with a perfect record. Even in T20s, the Trinidad franchise has been winning for more years than I can count. So it's obvious where you'd turn to for most of your players.

Right now there's actual competition for spots in the team. Not everyone can play. Will I agree with all of the choices? Hell no, but it doesn't matter once the performances come.

 

[Satan666]

I'm not generally a supporter of much of anything the WICB does, so no worries there.

Lara had many naysayers, agreed.

I'm not shunning anything, it's just that it's an argument that never ends. No matter what team is picked, there will always be people who aren't happy. Right now Barbados has the nod with the strongest players for Test cricket - Brathwaite, Holder, Roach, Mayers. Yes, it features more Bajans than other countries, but it's a competitive team. You cannot say that Roach and Holder don't deserve their spots just based on performances alone. Mayers has potential and form, and Brathwaite has the leadership, as exemplified by his attacking intent all through the day today. Barbados won the last 4-Day competition, sort of, after the competition was cut short due to the pandemic.

Look at who won the competition the years before that...Guyana. There are no Guyanese in the Test team, although they feature in limited overs. Hetmeyer is about the only one who immediately springs to mind. Tage Chanderpaul still has a couple years to go before he's ready for the international scene, and Chandrapaul Hemraj just doesn't look cut out for international cricket. Keemo Paul and Romario Shepherd both are better limited overs bowlers than the longer formats, although they are still young enough to adapt.

So, yeah, you have to go with the Bajans first right now, and I have zero problems with that. Guyana apart, is represented pretty proportionally - Gabriel, da Silva and Bravo from Trinidad, Joseph and Cornwall from the Leewards (Antigua specifically), Blackwood, Bonner and Campbell from Jamaica (although I'm still unsure why the last keeps his spot), and the solitary Windward representative in Warrican.

I mean, if you add Shai Hope and Roston Chase into the mix then it becomes heavily Barbados-skewed. But might I remind you of part of the playing XI in the last ODI - Lewis, Bravo, Pooran, Mohammed, Pollard, Phillip, Hosein. Fully 7 out of 11 players came from Trinidad and Tobago. And that's okay, we won the Super50 easily this year with a perfect record. Even in T20s, the Trinidad franchise has been winning for more years than I can count. So it's obvious where you'd turn to for most of your players.

Right now there's actual competition for spots in the team. Not everyone can play. Will I agree with all of the choices? Hell no, but it doesn't matter once the performances come.

Thanks for the long tirade! You still have to show evidence how it was all ‘Bravo’s fault’.

Nice segue though explaining why the present Test team is dominated by Bajans.... some useful information we certainly needed.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

@qpeedore even I don't get it as to why a team will go for someone like Campbell for a Test match. Aren't there any better players? I think Kieran Powell looked solid at that spot for a while few years ago as opposed to his career stats which are mediocre.

 

[qpeedore]

Kieran Powell wasn't bad, but neither was he that great. He's still around the domestic scene, although he didn't really turn much heads in the last FC competition. He started well enough, getting scores in the first two or three games, but several poor innings followed that. While I can't say he's totally out of the reckoning, it will take a lot of hard work on his part to get the attention of the selectors.

Campbell saved his skin with his innings today, and I shouldn't even be saying that because it's yet another innings where he got a start and failed to carry on. But at this point, 42 from him is to be considered a good score. I'm not saying he doesn't have ability, far from it. I think it's probably something he needs to work on mentally. I've too often see him get starts and fail to go on.

But with Shai Hope knocking on the door, Campbell had better start converting sooner rather than later.

 

[Mouseydread]

I like John Campbell I feel like he has the tools, he did well in the warm up game, I hope he gets a chance to bat in the second innings and scores a century. Otherwise the door is open to even someone like Evin Lewis or of course Shai Hope. The best thing about Windies cricket is there seems to be competition. The selectors have built this side for many years and gradually the Test Team has put together some decent performances over consistent winning results.

Surely if they keep this direction, The Windies can return to prominense with Test Cricket and we must rememeber we are double T20 World Champions full of stars in that format, and a competitive one day side.

Rally round.

 

[Khan Sahab54]

 

[Aislabie]

Wow this thread has been untouched in a while. I'm here to talk about the West Indies ODI team. With only nine wins out of 24 matches in the Cricket World Cup Super League, it will take a very unlikely series of events for them not to end up having to go through the Qualifier for one of the last two spots in the World Cup. To get there, they will have to overcome all but one of:

• South Africa
• Sri Lanka or Ireland
• Zimbabwe
• Netherlands
• Scotland
• United Arab Emirates
• United States
• Oman
• possibly Canada?

If they're going to do that, then they're going to need to improve their team and fast. As things currently look, they can't bat, they can't bowl and they can't improve because they don't play any domestic List A cricket (a problem that's not unique to them). Anyway, let's have a bit of a look at their player pool:

Name	Age	Mat	Batting	Bowling	Notes
Fabian Allen	27	20	200 runs @ 15.38 (SR: 98.52)	7 wickets @ 89.57 (econ: 5.64)
Sunil Ambris	29	16	473 runs @ 36.38 (SR: 95.74)	-	Has not played for the West Indies since January 2021.
Jermaine Blackwood	30	3	23 runs @ 11.50 (SR: 56.09)	-
Nkrumah Bonner	33	6	85 runs @ 17.00 (SR: 62.96)	1 wicket for 55 (econ: 5.07)
Darren Bravo	33	122	3,109 runs @ 30.18 (SR: 70.11)	-
Shamarh Brooks	33	21	694 runs @ 34.70 (SR: 76.34)	-
Yannic Cariah	30	3	53 runs @ 53.00 (SR: 62.35)	3 wickets @ 50.66 (econ: 6.08)	When selected, his last List A game was in 2019.
Keacy Carty	25	9	145 runs @ 24.16 (SR: 57.31)	-
Roston Chase	30	33	553 runs @ 24.04 (SR: 73.34)	-
Justin Greaves	28	3	29 runs @ 9.67 (SR: 34.11)	-
Shimron Hetmyer	25	47	1,447 runs @ 35.29 (SR: 106.39)	-	Has failed fitness tests, but returned for T20Is in August 2022.
Jason Holder	30	131	2,042 runs @ 24.30 (SR: 90.51)	153 wickets @ 36.30 (econ: 5.51)
Shai Hope	28	104	4,308 runs @ 43.08 (SR: 74.68)	-
Akeal Hosein	29	29	234 runs @ 13.76 (SR: 76.97)	44 wickets @ 28.31 (econ: 4.73)
Alzarri Joseph	25	54	332 runs @ 18.44 (SR: 71.55)	87 wickets @ 27.67 (econ: 5.21)
Brandon King	27	20	431 runs @ 23.94 (SR: 75.88)	-
Evin Lewis	30	57	1,847 runs @ 36.94 (SR: 82.97)	-	Has failed fitness tests, and not played for West Indies since November 2021.
Shermon Lewis	26	1	-	3 wickets @ 22.33 (econ: 6.81)
Kyle Mayers	29	17	486 runs @ 30.37 (SR: 89.33)	6 wickets @ 56.50 (econ: 5.77)
Gudakesh Motie	27	4	15 runs @ 5.00 (SR: 55.55)	8 wickets @ 16.75 (econ: 3.65)
Keemo Paul	24	23	266 runs @ 22.16 (SR: 92.68)	25 wickets @ 39.08 (econ: 6.00)
Anderson Phillip	26	5	22 runs (SR: 88.00)	4 wickets @ 51.75 (econ: 6.36)
Nicholas Pooran	26	52	1,555 runs @ 36.16 (SR: 96.10)	6 wickets @ 29.00 (econ: 6.17)
Rovman Powell	29	45	897 runs @ 23.00 (SR: 83.05)	3 wickets @ 91.66 (econ: 5.89)
Jayden Seales	20	7	16 runs (SR: 55.17)	4 wickets @ 80.25 (econ: 5.81)
Romario Shepherd	27	18	213 runs @ 17.75 (SR: 94.24)	11 wickets @ 54.63 (econ: 5.35)
Kevin Sinclair	22	3	3 runs (SR: 75.00)	5 wickets @ 24.60 (econ: 4.34)
Odean Smith	25	5	144 runs @ 36.00 (SR: 192.00)	6 wickets @ 20.33 (econ: 5.04)
Oshane Thomas	25	20	13 runs @ 2.60 (SR: 24.52)	27 wickets @ 32.07 (econ: 6.73)	Hasn't played for West Indies since December 2021.
Hayden Walsh	30	22	155 runs @ 17.22 (SR: 73.11)	28 wickets @ 31.82 (econ: 5.41)

There is just enough talent in there to make a functioning ODI team, but it won't be straightforward to manage. This is due in no small part to the fact that two of the team's most explosive batters have recently failed to meet fitness standards, and have on occasion had their own personal reasons not to be available for West Indies selection.

Anyhow, when selecting my team I will be seeking to fulfil the 15 roles required from any well-balanced ODI XI, those being the eight batting roles (including at least five boundary hitters), six bowling roles and the wicket-keeper. And a captain too I guess. I will also name four squad players, as if this is a World Cup Qualifier party.

#	Name	Age	Mat	Batting Role	Bowling/Fielding Role
1	Evin Lewis	30	57	Powerplay hitter	-	Try to replicate his T20 batting style a little more, especially for powerplay. Give him freedom.
2	Shai Hope	28	104	Anchor accumulator	Wicket-keeper
3	Sunil Ambris	29	16	Dynamic accumulator	-	This is despite the full knowledge he's barely played cricket for a year or more.
4	Nicholas Pooran	26	52	Middle-overs hitter	Captain	Can be used for odd overs with the ball if absolutely necessary.
5	Shimron Hetmyer	25	47	Middle-overs hitter	-
6	Kyle Mayers	29	17	Middle-overs hitter	Stock seam bowler
7	Odean Smith	25	5	Death hitter	Middle-overs seam bowler	Think of Liam Plunkett's old bowling role
8	Jason Holder	30	131	Firefighter	Top-and-tail bowler	The most experienced player takes on the most high-pressure responsibilities.
9	Alzarri Joseph	25	54	-	Leading strike bowler	Honestly has an excellent ODI record with the ball
10	Akeal Hosein	29	29	-	Stock spin bowler
11	Gudakesh Motie	27	4	-	Attacking spin bowler.
R	Shamarh Brooks	33	21	Reserve accumulator	-
R	Rovman Powell	29	45	Reserve hitter	-	Could easily come in for an out-of-form Mayers or even Ambris.
R	Kevin Sinclair	22	3	-	Reserve spin bowler	A huge player for the future.
R	Oshane Thomas	25	20	-	Reserve pace bowler	Should blow away Associate batters in Qualifier if selected.

That squad would probably be just about good enough to carry the West Indies through the Qualifier, but if any of these 15 players gets themselves injured there simply isn't a replacement waiting in the wings for them. Similarly, I've not picked a single debutant not because I didn't want to look for them, but because the West Indies have already tried everyone who should be anywhere near this squad.

Obviously the issues with WI cricket are more than just shuffling around these particular Titanic deckchairs, but it's a fun thought experiment.

 

[NILAYSHAH60]

As for a certain thought, I am very much impressed with what Shamarh Brooks is doing at T20Is(not talking about his strike rate or the way he plays T20s). He has been really consistent and I see no reason why he can't replicate that in One day Cricket. He is someone who always plays close to a run-a-ball and is a good strike rotator as well.

Not too sure why Evin Lewis hasn't been a part of the West Indies ODI team for a while now. But if he is unavailable, I think we can make a pair b/w Kyle Mayers & Shamarh Brooks.

I've seen a bit of West Indies Cricket recently and I feel this side can do better than what they are doing currently-

Kyle Mayers
Shamarh Brooks
Shai Hope
Nicholas Pooran (can also bowl a bit)
Shimron Hetmyer
Rovman Powell
Jason Holder
Akeal Hosein
Romario Shepherd
Alzarri Joseph
Obed McCoy

 

[Satan666]

Wow this thread has been untouched in a while. I'm here to talk about the West Indies ODI team. With only nine wins out of 24 matches in the Cricket World Cup Super League, it will take a very unlikely series of events for them not to end up having to go through the Qualifier for one of the last two spots in the World Cup. To get there, they will have to overcome all but one of:

• South Africa
• Sri Lanka or Ireland
• Zimbabwe
• Netherlands
• Scotland
• United Arab Emirates
• United States
• Oman
• possibly Canada?

If they're going to do that, then they're going to need to improve their team and fast. As things currently look, they can't bat, they can't bowl and they can't improve because they don't play any domestic List A cricket (a problem that's not unique to them). Anyway, let's have a bit of a look at their player pool:

Name	Age	Mat	Batting	Bowling	Notes
Fabian Allen	27	20	200 runs @ 15.38 (SR: 98.52)	7 wickets @ 89.57 (econ: 5.64)
Sunil Ambris	29	16	473 runs @ 36.38 (SR: 95.74)	-	Has not played for the West Indies since January 2021.
Jermaine Blackwood	30	3	23 runs @ 11.50 (SR: 56.09)	-
Nkrumah Bonner	33	6	85 runs @ 17.00 (SR: 62.96)	1 wicket for 55 (econ: 5.07)
Darren Bravo	33	122	3,109 runs @ 30.18 (SR: 70.11)	-
Shamarh Brooks	33	21	694 runs @ 34.70 (SR: 76.34)	-
Yannic Cariah	30	3	53 runs @ 53.00 (SR: 62.35)	3 wickets @ 50.66 (econ: 6.08)	When selected, his last List A game was in 2019.
Keacy Carty	25	9	145 runs @ 24.16 (SR: 57.31)	-
Roston Chase	30	33	553 runs @ 24.04 (SR: 73.34)	-
Justin Greaves	28	3	29 runs @ 9.67 (SR: 34.11)	-
Shimron Hetmyer	25	47	1,447 runs @ 35.29 (SR: 106.39)	-	Has failed fitness tests, but returned for T20Is in August 2022.
Jason Holder	30	131	2,042 runs @ 24.30 (SR: 90.51)	153 wickets @ 36.30 (econ: 5.51)
Shai Hope	28	104	4,308 runs @ 43.08 (SR: 74.68)	-
Akeal Hosein	29	29	234 runs @ 13.76 (SR: 76.97)	44 wickets @ 28.31 (econ: 4.73)
Alzarri Joseph	25	54	332 runs @ 18.44 (SR: 71.55)	87 wickets @ 27.67 (econ: 5.21)
Brandon King	27	20	431 runs @ 23.94 (SR: 75.88)	-
Evin Lewis	30	57	1,847 runs @ 36.94 (SR: 82.97)	-	Has failed fitness tests, and not played for West Indies since November 2021.
Shermon Lewis	26	1	-	3 wickets @ 22.33 (econ: 6.81)
Kyle Mayers	29	17	486 runs @ 30.37 (SR: 89.33)	6 wickets @ 56.50 (econ: 5.77)
Gudakesh Motie	27	4	15 runs @ 5.00 (SR: 55.55)	8 wickets @ 16.75 (econ: 3.65)
Keemo Paul	24	23	266 runs @ 22.16 (SR: 92.68)	25 wickets @ 39.08 (econ: 6.00)
Anderson Phillip	26	5	22 runs (SR: 88.00)	4 wickets @ 51.75 (econ: 6.36)
Nicholas Pooran	26	52	1,555 runs @ 36.16 (SR: 96.10)	6 wickets @ 29.00 (econ: 6.17)
Rovman Powell	29	45	897 runs @ 23.00 (SR: 83.05)	3 wickets @ 91.66 (econ: 5.89)
Jayden Seales	20	7	16 runs (SR: 55.17)	4 wickets @ 80.25 (econ: 5.81)
Romario Shepherd	27	18	213 runs @ 17.75 (SR: 94.24)	11 wickets @ 54.63 (econ: 5.35)
Kevin Sinclair	22	3	3 runs (SR: 75.00)	5 wickets @ 24.60 (econ: 4.34)
Odean Smith	25	5	144 runs @ 36.00 (SR: 192.00)	6 wickets @ 20.33 (econ: 5.04)
Oshane Thomas	25	20	13 runs @ 2.60 (SR: 24.52)	27 wickets @ 32.07 (econ: 6.73)	Hasn't played for West Indies since December 2021.
Hayden Walsh	30	22	155 runs @ 17.22 (SR: 73.11)	28 wickets @ 31.82 (econ: 5.41)

There is just enough talent in there to make a functioning ODI team, but it won't be straightforward to manage. This is due in no small part to the fact that two of the team's most explosive batters have recently failed to meet fitness standards, and have on occasion had their own personal reasons not to be available for West Indies selection.

Anyhow, when selecting my team I will be seeking to fulfil the 15 roles required from any well-balanced ODI XI, those being the eight batting roles (including at least five boundary hitters), six bowling roles and the wicket-keeper. And a captain too I guess. I will also name four squad players, as if this is a World Cup Qualifier party.

#	Name	Age	Mat	Batting Role	Bowling/Fielding Role
1	Evin Lewis	30	57	Powerplay hitter	-	Try to replicate his T20 batting style a little more, especially for powerplay. Give him freedom.
2	Shai Hope	28	104	Anchor accumulator	Wicket-keeper
3	Sunil Ambris	29	16	Dynamic accumulator	-	This is despite the full knowledge he's barely played cricket for a year or more.
4	Nicholas Pooran	26	52	Middle-overs hitter	Captain	Can be used for odd overs with the ball if absolutely necessary.
5	Shimron Hetmyer	25	47	Middle-overs hitter	-
6	Kyle Mayers	29	17	Middle-overs hitter	Stock seam bowler
7	Odean Smith	25	5	Death hitter	Middle-overs seam bowler	Think of Liam Plunkett's old bowling role
8	Jason Holder	30	131	Firefighter	Top-and-tail bowler	The most experienced player takes on the most high-pressure responsibilities.
9	Alzarri Joseph	25	54	-	Leading strike bowler	Honestly has an excellent ODI record with the ball
10	Akeal Hosein	29	29	-	Stock spin bowler
11	Gudakesh Motie	27	4	-	Attacking spin bowler.
R	Shamarh Brooks	33	21	Reserve accumulator	-
R	Rovman Powell	29	45	Reserve hitter	-	Could easily come in for an out-of-form Mayers or even Ambris.
R	Kevin Sinclair	22	3	-	Reserve spin bowler	A huge player for the future.
R	Oshane Thomas	25	20	-	Reserve pace bowler	Should blow away Associate batters in Qualifier if selected.

That squad would probably be just about good enough to carry the West Indies through the Qualifier, but if any of these 15 players gets themselves injured there simply isn't a replacement waiting in the wings for them. Similarly, I've not picked a single debutant not because I didn't want to look for them, but because the West Indies have already tried everyone who should be anywhere near this squad.

Obviously the issues with WI cricket are more than just shuffling around these particular Titanic deckchairs, but it's a fun thought experiment.

No List A? Seriously, what the hell! I remember Regional 50 over matches was pretty competitive.

Shameful if WI have to go through a qualifier for the World Cup, Given those poor stats Author they may not even qualify for the WC.

 

[Satan666]

@Aislabie I’m reading on the internet they still run a 50 over tournament, though seems like a condensed version to what I remembered, dont think WI ever had full domestic league, FC or List A. Actually most of the guys 70s/80s figured prominently in county cricket and Aussie domestic sides. I think the English placed a limit on overseas players in late 90s from participating in county cricket, not sure.