What are your thoughts on India/Pakistan?

[Till Valhalla]

"Lakeeren hain.. toh rehne do,
Kisi ne rooth kar,
Gusse mein shayad khench di thi
Inhi ko ab banao paala,
Aur aao Kabaddi khelte hain
Lakeeren hain.. toh rehne do!"

If Borders are present .. Let them be,
Someone got sad and maybe in anger drew them,
Lets make them the Center Line
and Lets play Kabaddi.
If Borders are present .. Let them be.

A Gulzar poem badly translated by me.

I think sky is blue on both the sides, the land is brown and the grass is green.

 

[Velocity]

To be honest, I think Pakistani people are very nice people and food is delicious. One quality that is a bit annoying about some Pakistanis is they think very highly of themselves. At school, my Pak friends talk so very highly about players like Shahid Afridi and how he is the best cricketer ever and how their current cricket team can beat India anyday. I have next to no complaints against the people. I hate the Pak government. Politically wise, I think the government is not doing a good job of keeping those terrorists clowns out of their country and wiping them out. That's one thing I dislike about Pakistan. The inability to keep out people running around with AK-47's and keeping innocent Pakistanis safe really pisses me out. When I hear about these attacks occurring in Pakistan, I am very angry at the government and feeling sad for those poor people. No offense or anything, I'd be 40% be willing to come visit Pakistan. Though overall, I like Pakistani people and their culture. Their biryani is quite good, but nothing can beat Hyderabadi biryani! . They are quite an interesting people.

NOTE: Whatever I said in this post was not meant to insult Pakistanis, and please do not take this seriously. I am providing my own honest opinion.

 

[Na Maloom Afraad]

At school, my Pak friends talk so very highly about players like Shahid Afridi and how he is the best cricketer ever and how their current cricket team can beat India anyday.

Those are idiots, a real Pakistani will respect Misbah and Younis way more than Afridi.

 

[Deleted member 46200]

Those are idiots, a real Pakistani will respect Misbah and Younis way more than Afridi.

In any sport you should never get on the backs of the players as they will never find the inspiration to perform for people who openly hate them. Love them and encourage they find the form and get back on the job.

 

[Na Maloom Afraad]

K, mom.

 

[Master Khan]

Politics have runied these nations.
I don't have problems with Indians or india because I work in a student accommodation and I meet alot of indians from india there and we all get along and joke about things.
I miss old days when there was Pakistan vs India cricket series but Politics just runied everything.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

OK, first of all kudos to actually start this thread @CerealKiller. Now I will pitch in my 2 cents. Being an Indian I obviously know more about India then Pakistan. But I have a lot of friends from Pakistan at work place here and this is why working here in US makes it so special.

Let me start by saying I was kiddish in my early teens and would be anti-Pakistan for any and everything. This is a typical teen young age where people dont think unbiased and just do and think how society thinks. I am not saying this is only me, I would represent millions of people from both side. Then came in an age where I started to learn more and comment on things only of which I have personally gained some knowledge. At this day and age people expect your to be politically correct.

Now coming onto the actual topic my views on India being an Indian staying out of India is simple. We as a country have come a long way. We have people who are CEO's of top companies in the world. ISRO has made so much achievement that we are now ranked 5th in the world. No matter how small the satellites were, we have created a record by sending maximum number of satellites in the space. We are on our way to become second largest economy in coming years. Thats a one heck of an achievement when it comes to post-independence era. Things are improving so much that those villages that did not have power few years back are now complaining about power cuts which is a good thing. Internet broadband speeds have increased, JIO and other things with 4G I am impressed with how its grown.

Now coming to the bad side of my country. We Indians need to understand population control. With the amount of population we have, we are always bound to lag somewhere. Secondly the media houses not only in India but here in States too, needs some serious overhaul. Newsroom have now become political room and each political party owns a media house. Social media has ruined it too. Not everything on SOCIAL MEDIA is true. People need to start realizing it. Third, just because Social Media and Press Media dominate now a days, they have made people impatient. Again this is just not India its everywhere, but I will keep this to only India. Just for making money they turn people against each other. India is now divided into Bhakts(BJP followers) and Librals(Others). I hate it, I absolutely hate. Congress was ruling for 10 years and people of India saw the improvement. I would not say that things did not improve, but they were slow. People were tired and SCAMS! There were lot of SCAMS. Politicians using power to turn Hindu's against Muslims is an old thing and will always happen until people do not get educated and smart. No one hates Muslims or no one hates Hindu's or Christians. Its the politicians who to favor them will do this.
Anyways for India to continue growing, we need smart people too with Smart cities. If people start behaving smartly(some are oversmart right now) I am pretty sure we will come a long way.

Now coming to Pakistan, I will not say much as I might not have complete knowledge but I love Pakistani folks. People in my office are absolute gem. Down to earth hardcore cricket followers and thats what I like. The food, the girls , the clothes all are really nice and beautiful and tasty . We have nice discussions about India and Pakistan and this is because we all feel we are matured enough and have come up from hating to understanding.

Secondly I hate Pakistan government. This is not only my view lot of my Pakistani friends share this opinion. People in Pakistan are used as Guinea Pigs. I was so pissed when that Gunmen opened fire on Kids in that school in Peshawar. No matter how much its denied, Pakistan government has always supported terrorists first for USA against Russia and then when USA did not need them against India. Hafeez Saeed resides in Pakistan and has open rallies, Osama Bin Laden was found in Pakistan, Dawood resides in Pakistan. There is no denying the first two right? Why? Why cant Pakistan not hunt them down? The terrorists they breed are now stinging them and Pakistan people have to suffer. People of Pakistan are not part of this activity, infact they too are victim, but government and ISI needs a serious overhaul if thats even possible. I do not want to comment on Pakistan army as any army is a pride of any country.

Pakistan needs to really look into self development. They are lagging behind when compared to India. This is the truth, focus on things that really mean a lot to people not what history did.

These are my opinion, I am not going to reply to anyone if they reply to my post as its just my opinion and I am not answerable.

 

[CerealKiller]

Secondly I hate Pakistan government. This is not only my view lot of my Pakistani friends share this opinion. People in Pakistan are used as Guinea Pigs. I was so pissed when that Gunmen opened fire on Kids in that school in Peshawar. No matter how much its denied, Pakistan government has always supported terrorists first for USA against Russia and then when USA did not need them against India. Hafeez Saeed resides in Pakistan and has open rallies, Osama Bin Laden was found in Pakistan, Dawood resides in Pakistan. There is no denying the first two right? Why? Why cant Pakistan not hunt them down? The terrorists they breed are now stinging them and Pakistan people have to suffer. People of Pakistan are not part of this activity, infact they too are victim, but government and ISI needs a serious overhaul if thats even possible. I do not want to comment on Pakistan army as any army is a pride of any country.

I hate the government too. Pakistan needs to elect Imran Khan as PM. Give him two or three terms, and he will fix everything, just like he has started doing in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, where his party holds a majority in the provincial parliament.

I think charity starts at home. India had more attacks than Pakistan last year, and the Chief Minister of your largest state, UP if i'm not wrong, is far from a tolerant person. And your current governing party is definetely not secular. Certainly Pakistan is in worse conditions, but i think people from India are a bit hypocritical.

Sponsoring terrorism is how proxy wars are fought in the 21st century, Pakistan is just more inept than others at hiding it. And i am really far from justifying or defending anything.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

India vs Pakistan Terror attacks in 2016 & 2017

India

2 January 2016 2016 Pathankot attack in Pathankot Air Force Station, Pathankot Punjab
25 June 2016 2016 Pampore attack Pampore
5 August 2016 2016 Kokrajhar Attack. Kokrajhar, Assam
18 September 2016 2016 Uri attack Uri, J&K
3 October 2016 2016 Baramulla attack Baramulla, J&K
6 October 2016 2016 Handwara attack at rashtriya riffles camp Handwara, J&K
29 November 2016 2016 Nagrota Attack Nagrota J&K 10
March 7, 2017 2017 Bhopal–Ujjain Passenger train bombing

All attacks in India were on Army base camps obviously to unsettle things in JK except the Bhopal Ujjain train bombing.

Pakistan

January
13 January - At least 15 people are killed and several injured after a bomb explodes near a polio centre near the Pakistani city of Quetta.
20 January - At least 20 people are killed and 60 wounded after gunmen open fire at Bacha Khan University.[3][4][5]
29 January - A suicide bomber,attempted to enter Cantonement area in Zhob District when the Friday prayers were underway and blew himself at a check-post after security personnel signalled him to stop. Seven people were injured.Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan claimed responsibility.[6]

February
6 February - At least 9 people were killed and several others were wounded when a suicide bomber hit a vehicle of Frontier Corps (FC) in Quetta.

March
7 March - At least 10 people including three police constables were killed and 14 others were injured in a suicide blast in the premises of a local court in Charsadda district in Pakistan's troubled northwest, DPO Charsadda Khalid Sohail told Dunya News.[9]
16 March - A bomb detonates in a bus carrying government employees in Peshawar, Pakistan, killing 17 and injuring at least 53.[10]
27 March - At least 74 people were killed and 338 others were injured in a suicide bombing that hit the main entrance of Gulshan-e-Iqbal Park, one of the largest parks in Lahore.[11]

April
19 April - At least one person was killed and 17 others wounded on April 19 after a suicide bomber attacked an Excise and Taxation office in Mardan, police and officials said.

August
8 August - A bomb blast outside a hospital where lawyers had gathered to mourn the death of a prominent lawyer killed at least 70 people in Quetta

September
2 September - At least 14 killed, 52 wounded in suicide blast at Mardan district courts in Peshawar.
13 September - A suicide bomber injured between 10 and 13 people, four of where policemen.[13] The attack occurred in Shikarpur a city in Sindh.[14] Other Suicide bomber, who was arrested in Shikarpur had got training in Afghanistan.
16 September - At least 23 people were killed and dozens more injured when a suicide bomber detonated his vest in the veranda of a mosque during Friday prayers in the Mohmand Tribal District, bordering Afghanistan.

October
24 October - At least 3 militants stormed a police training center in Quetta and took between 200 and 500 cadets hostage.Two of the attackers blew themselves up while the third attacker was killed. At least 60 people were killed and more than 190 people were injured. The attack was claimed by Islamic State.
25 October - A police officer was killed when a IED bomb targeting polio workers went off in the city of Peshawar.
26 October - A polio vaccinator was gunned down on Wednesday. The attack occurred in Jamrud and town in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
29 October - 5 people were killed when unidentified assailants opened fire at a religious gathering in Karachi's Nazimabad area.

November

• 12 November - At least 52 people were killed and over 100 others were injured when a suicide bomber blew himself up inside the shrine of Shah Noorani in Khuzdar, Balochistan after evening prayer
• 22 November - 3 Frontier Corps (FC) personnel were killed and 5 others were injured after a grenade attack on a funeral in Peshawar.
• 22 November - A man was killed and 3 others were injured in a bomb attack in Chaman near Quetta.[26]
• 26 November - 2 Frontier Corps (FC) personnel were killed and 14 others injured when 4 suicide bombers attacked a camp in Mohmand. All 4 attackers were killed. The attack was claimed by Jamaat-ul-Ahrar, a Taliban splinter group.[27]
• 26 November - Two security guards were killed when militants attacked the vehicle of an oil exploration company in Gwadar.[28]

@CerealKiller you were saying ah? More attacks in India then Pakistan? People are suffering in Pakistan but keep denying this fact.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

I think charity starts at home. India had more attacks than Pakistan last year, and the Chief Minister of your largest state, UP if i'm not wrong, is far from a tolerant person. And your current governing party is definetely not secular. Certainly Pakistan is in worse conditions, but i think people from India are a bit hypocritical.

Sponsoring terrorism is how proxy wars are fought in the 21st century, Pakistan is just more inept than others at hiding it. And i am really far from justifying or defending anything.

Why does a government have to be secular? They are doing a decent job India's economy is strong, India has largest FDI more then China as that is our competition not any other country. Just because Congress liked licking minorities to gain vote (Muslims are not in minority in India, they constitute 20% of the population) Muslims in India are roughly 172 million people thats almost the population of Pakistan (188.9 million).

Again as you said Pakistan is in worst conditions then India but I do not think People are hypocritical. They dont take shit from government if things are wrong.[DOUBLEPOST=1496527499][/DOUBLEPOST]Anyways I had promised myself of not posting or replying to this thread and that will be the case.

 

[CerealKiller]

India vs Pakistan Terror attacks in 2016 & 2017

India

2 January 2016 2016 Pathankot attack in Pathankot Air Force Station, Pathankot Punjab
25 June 2016 2016 Pampore attack Pampore
5 August 2016 2016 Kokrajhar Attack. Kokrajhar, Assam
18 September 2016 2016 Uri attack Uri, J&K
3 October 2016 2016 Baramulla attack Baramulla, J&K
6 October 2016 2016 Handwara attack at rashtriya riffles camp Handwara, J&K
29 November 2016 2016 Nagrota Attack Nagrota J&K 10
March 7, 2017 2017 Bhopal–Ujjain Passenger train bombing

All attacks in India were on Army base camps obviously to unsettle things in JK except the Bhopal Ujjain train bombing.

Pakistan

January
13 January - At least 15 people are killed and several injured after a bomb explodes near a polio centre near the Pakistani city of Quetta.
20 January - At least 20 people are killed and 60 wounded after gunmen open fire at Bacha Khan University.[3][4][5]
29 January - A suicide bomber,attempted to enter Cantonement area in Zhob District when the Friday prayers were underway and blew himself at a check-post after security personnel signalled him to stop. Seven people were injured.Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan claimed responsibility.[6]

February
6 February - At least 9 people were killed and several others were wounded when a suicide bomber hit a vehicle of Frontier Corps (FC) in Quetta.

March
7 March - At least 10 people including three police constables were killed and 14 others were injured in a suicide blast in the premises of a local court in Charsadda district in Pakistan's troubled northwest, DPO Charsadda Khalid Sohail told Dunya News.[9]
16 March - A bomb detonates in a bus carrying government employees in Peshawar, Pakistan, killing 17 and injuring at least 53.[10]
27 March - At least 74 people were killed and 338 others were injured in a suicide bombing that hit the main entrance of Gulshan-e-Iqbal Park, one of the largest parks in Lahore.[11]

April
19 April - At least one person was killed and 17 others wounded on April 19 after a suicide bomber attacked an Excise and Taxation office in Mardan, police and officials said.

August
8 August - A bomb blast outside a hospital where lawyers had gathered to mourn the death of a prominent lawyer killed at least 70 people in Quetta

September
2 September - At least 14 killed, 52 wounded in suicide blast at Mardan district courts in Peshawar.
13 September - A suicide bomber injured between 10 and 13 people, four of where policemen.[13] The attack occurred in Shikarpur a city in Sindh.[14] Other Suicide bomber, who was arrested in Shikarpur had got training in Afghanistan.
16 September - At least 23 people were killed and dozens more injured when a suicide bomber detonated his vest in the veranda of a mosque during Friday prayers in the Mohmand Tribal District, bordering Afghanistan.

October
24 October - At least 3 militants stormed a police training center in Quetta and took between 200 and 500 cadets hostage.Two of the attackers blew themselves up while the third attacker was killed. At least 60 people were killed and more than 190 people were injured. The attack was claimed by Islamic State.
25 October - A police officer was killed when a IED bomb targeting polio workers went off in the city of Peshawar.
26 October - A polio vaccinator was gunned down on Wednesday. The attack occurred in Jamrud and town in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
29 October - 5 people were killed when unidentified assailants opened fire at a religious gathering in Karachi's Nazimabad area.

November

• 12 November - At least 52 people were killed and over 100 others were injured when a suicide bomber blew himself up inside the shrine of Shah Noorani in Khuzdar, Balochistan after evening prayer
• 22 November - 3 Frontier Corps (FC) personnel were killed and 5 others were injured after a grenade attack on a funeral in Peshawar.
• 22 November - A man was killed and 3 others were injured in a bomb attack in Chaman near Quetta.[26]
• 26 November - 2 Frontier Corps (FC) personnel were killed and 14 others injured when 4 suicide bombers attacked a camp in Mohmand. All 4 attackers were killed. The attack was claimed by Jamaat-ul-Ahrar, a Taliban splinter group.[27]
• 26 November - Two security guards were killed when militants attacked the vehicle of an oil exploration company in Gwadar.[28]

@CerealKiller you were saying ah? More attacks in India then Pakistan? People are suffering in Pakistan but keep denying this fact.

India had the most bomb blasts in the world in 2016, says report | india-news | Hindustan Times

 

[Till Valhalla]

Why does a government have to be secular?

Because our constitution states that we are a secular country and anybody who doesn't like the idea of being secular doesn't represents our country.
It's great we are growing at this rate but all the development goes down the train when Government is not secular and can't promise security to anybody. When the Government is not secular their leaders participate in hate speech and give open threats to other religion people. For example Raja Singh.
Why was development slow during congress years why didn't Congress pass laws like GST and FDI because BJP as then opposition didn't allow the laws to be passed.
For India to really grow I believe we need to dissolve the current parties and and the leaders working for it except for a few here and there.
By government not being secular it has lead to the rise of extremes of all religions. Hindu extremists have started riling up on hate against other religions thinking they can do everything as they have a government which has a lean on their religion, Muslim and Christian extremist are trying to build on that hate and misguiding our youth and misguided youth are never good for a country.
Freedom of Speech has been curbed by this extremist, people need to learn that they can criticize their state of Head and the government but if anybody does that he is labelled terrorist, Anti-Indian, Pakistani. The thing is you can be Indian and still don't like the government.
The fact is people are losing and politics is winning. The recent elections in Goa is a prime example of it where BJP was ruling but when the recent result came they didn't have the majority or the highest number of seats. Congress had the most seats but they were not enough to form the government there. The third highest seats went to a local party who made an alliance with BJP to form Government but the thing was Congress and Local party main campaign was to get rid of BJP from the state government but the local party cheated it's voter by making an U-turn on it's main stance.
Don't take this post assuming me as an Anti-Indian, I am proud to be an Indian but I am ashamed how the government handles the issues present in country. Their priorities are messed up.

I don't even wanna talk about the politics in Pakistan, I am just amazed how stupid decisions they make.

Anyways I had promised myself of not posting or replying to this thread and that will be the case.

If you have any reply we can continue in PM rather than breaking your promise.

I am sure if I videotape the words what I have spoken here. I will be thrashed online and probably physically.

 

[Fake Passport]

Why does a government have to be secular?

Primarily, because a secular government can be concerned about running the country for the good of the country, free from the limitations that religion (whatever religion) puts on it. It also means that the government will better accommodate the entire country, as soon as you chuck active religion in there then the focus of the government always focuses too much on appeasing the majority, usually by ignoring or exacerbating the minority. Secularism doesn't mean that government officials can't have religious beliefs, all it means, to use the old Jefferson quote, that there is a wall of separation of church and state.

Now, I'm an atheist, and happy to debate that all day long. But that's not the point of this thread, but there is one thing that alot of people both theists and atheists kinda miss when talking about the merits of secularism. The argument is usually about the influence that whatever religion can have on the state. People like me will say that religion has a negative influence and people of belief will say its unifying and good for the state (to grossly simplify the whole argument). What its missed is the opposite, the effect that the state has on religion. A secular government is there to protect the church from the state, as much as the inverse.

 

[sanjeevaloria]

Why does a government have to be secular? They are doing a decent job India's economy is strong, India has largest FDI more then China as that is our competition not any other country. Just because Congress liked licking minorities to gain vote (Muslims are not in minority in India, they constitute 20% of the population) Muslims in India are roughly 172 million people thats almost the population of Pakistan (188.9 million).

First of all indian economy is standing on india's largest informal sector where the people's from all communities work harder in bad condition without any labour rights to run this large economy.

now second in india there are not only hindus and muslims but there are Christians, Sikhs, Buddhist, jain, and jews also lives here. and protecting minorities rights is also a type of secularism.

the indian secularism is differ from the western secularism. and its because india is very religious country then western countries and also has large diversity.

in western secularism state and religion are separated and no religious community get any type of speciality by the state.

and in indian secularism state and religion is not separated but state makes a distance from the religion and state can interfere in religion if its necessary to reform it. and all religions get same protection from the state.

now third and final point in democracy votes are important without votes no one can win and rule.

I will post more details about secularism later.

 

[Immays]

Both cultures are very interesting to be honest. I really like India but i know a lot about it while Pakistan is a mystery for me. So this is why i'd choose Pakistan as my next stop!