Australia will lose this Ashes and the next if they don't find better batsmen.
Australia urgently needs batsmen
Australia urgently needs batsmen
Where are Australia's batsmen?
- Thread starter hawkeye
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zeustrojanstark
Chairman of Selectors
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No one left.They have the best possible squad.Only way is to bring back Justin Langer,Matthew Hayden,Ricky Ponting,Mark Waugh,Steve Waugh,Adam Gilchrist,Mike Hussey etc!No other way.
Where are Australia's batsmen? Back in the pavilion, haven't you been watching? 
Are there better batsmen out there, or is it a case of being a psychological problem and better application?
Watson (43 Tests)
Career : 2669 runs @ 35.12
Tests 01-27 : 1953 runs @ 41.55 (100 x2, 50 x15)
Tests 28-43 : 716 runs @ 24.69 (50 x4)
Watson has only averaged 30+ in a series twice in his last seven, against West Indies and Sri Lanka, and scored only one fifty outside those two series. That other fifty was 88 against South Africa out of his 95 runs in four innings against them
Rogers (3 Tests)
Career : 102 runs @ 20.40
Rogers made his debut in 2008 with 4 and 15 against India. While he's only averaging 27.67 in this current series, he probably should have and have had more chances.
Khawaja (7 Tests)
Career : 277 runs @ 27.70
Tests 01-04 : 195 runs @ 32.50 (50 x1)
Tests 05-07 : 82 runs @ 20.50
Decent start to his career, averaging 2+ in his first three series, but a HS of 38 since hasn't helped. Still he does average 30+ in away Tests even if this is his first since December 2011
Hughes (26 Tests)
Career : 1534 runs @ 33.35
Tests 01-07 : 615 runs @ 51.25 (100 x2, 50 x2)
Tests 08-26 : 919 runs @ 27.03 (100 x1, 50 x5)
Has scored 435 runs @ 43.50 in series against Sri Lanka since that seventh Test, 484 runs @ 20.17 against other sides
Smith (9 Tests)
Career : 492 runs @ 30.75
Before this series he was averaging 32.31 over three series, each had increased from 25.00 against Pakistan to 31.80 against England to 40.25 against India. Made a good 53 in the 1st Test but only 19 runs for twice out since.
Clarke (157 Tests)
Career : 7326 runs @ 51.59
No real point statistically analysing Clarke, he was prolific last year and now looks like a fish out of water with 51 series runs @ 17.00. Perhaps the strain of captaining this rabble is taking its toll, trying to bat where they need him but not where he's happiest.
Haddin (46 Tests)
Career : 2387 runs @ 35.10
Tests 01-31 : 1869 runs @ 40.63 (100 x3, 50 x8)
Tests 32-46 : 518 runs @ 23.55 (50 x3)
The hundreds have dried up for Haddin, just three fifties for him since the last Ashes series. He's averaged 30+ in a series only once since that Ashes series, against New Zealand, and that thanks to his highest score of 80 (4/5 of his series runs)
In fairness he does only average well (40+) against England, New Zealand and West Indies, below 30 against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, and the latter three make up half his series since the Ashes.
I think they are mentally a beaten side, that doesn't help the newer batsman, and when form has deserted Hughes, Watson and Haddin, and Clarke is having a relative stinker of a series, that doesn't bode well for the relative newcomers in Rogers, Khawaja and Smith with 19 Tests between them (including this)
I suspect the reviews are now in their heads, when you're struggling for form it is all too tempting to try anything including a review in desperation. Silly shots exacerbate the problem, technical flaws become glaringly obvious to all and sundry. Are there better batsmen out there? Quite possibly, but how many and who do you drop, and will they just suffer the same as those in the side already?
You could call upon someone like Hussey, he said he's available. He's never played a Test, despite playing 69 ODIs and 39 T20Is.
BBC Sport - Ashes 2013: David Hussey says he is ready to help Aussies
Warner might add some fight to the batting, but he took that too literally so is a bad boy excluded. Cowan is another whose form looked decent, averaged 38 after 8 Tests and that has dipped to 31.28 after averaging 26.68 in his last 10 Tests with a HS of just 86 and scoring just two other fifties.
The aussies need to show grit next innings, if they don't then those who don't could well be axed. But then England used 29 players in the 1989 Ashes series and lost 0-4, 16 players on the 90/91 and 94/95 Ashes tour and lost 0-3 and 1-3 respectively, it doesn't necessarily help any keep changing players.
Harris has worked out as a replacement for Starc, Khawaja has yet to prove a lot better than Cowan and if he gets a duck 2nd innings will match his total of 14 runs from the 1st Test. Ironically Watson is getting a lot of flak yet top scored yesterday, only one innings wonders Hughes (81no out of 82 runs), Agar (98 out of 114) and Pattinson (25no out of 37) are above him in the series averages, and only Agar has scored more runs.
Are there better batsmen out there, or is it a case of being a psychological problem and better application?
Watson (43 Tests)
Career : 2669 runs @ 35.12
Tests 01-27 : 1953 runs @ 41.55 (100 x2, 50 x15)
Tests 28-43 : 716 runs @ 24.69 (50 x4)
Watson has only averaged 30+ in a series twice in his last seven, against West Indies and Sri Lanka, and scored only one fifty outside those two series. That other fifty was 88 against South Africa out of his 95 runs in four innings against them
Rogers (3 Tests)
Career : 102 runs @ 20.40
Rogers made his debut in 2008 with 4 and 15 against India. While he's only averaging 27.67 in this current series, he probably should have and have had more chances.
Khawaja (7 Tests)
Career : 277 runs @ 27.70
Tests 01-04 : 195 runs @ 32.50 (50 x1)
Tests 05-07 : 82 runs @ 20.50
Decent start to his career, averaging 2+ in his first three series, but a HS of 38 since hasn't helped. Still he does average 30+ in away Tests even if this is his first since December 2011
Hughes (26 Tests)
Career : 1534 runs @ 33.35
Tests 01-07 : 615 runs @ 51.25 (100 x2, 50 x2)
Tests 08-26 : 919 runs @ 27.03 (100 x1, 50 x5)
Has scored 435 runs @ 43.50 in series against Sri Lanka since that seventh Test, 484 runs @ 20.17 against other sides
Smith (9 Tests)
Career : 492 runs @ 30.75
Before this series he was averaging 32.31 over three series, each had increased from 25.00 against Pakistan to 31.80 against England to 40.25 against India. Made a good 53 in the 1st Test but only 19 runs for twice out since.
Clarke (157 Tests)
Career : 7326 runs @ 51.59
No real point statistically analysing Clarke, he was prolific last year and now looks like a fish out of water with 51 series runs @ 17.00. Perhaps the strain of captaining this rabble is taking its toll, trying to bat where they need him but not where he's happiest.
Haddin (46 Tests)
Career : 2387 runs @ 35.10
Tests 01-31 : 1869 runs @ 40.63 (100 x3, 50 x8)
Tests 32-46 : 518 runs @ 23.55 (50 x3)
The hundreds have dried up for Haddin, just three fifties for him since the last Ashes series. He's averaged 30+ in a series only once since that Ashes series, against New Zealand, and that thanks to his highest score of 80 (4/5 of his series runs)
In fairness he does only average well (40+) against England, New Zealand and West Indies, below 30 against India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka, and the latter three make up half his series since the Ashes.
I think they are mentally a beaten side, that doesn't help the newer batsman, and when form has deserted Hughes, Watson and Haddin, and Clarke is having a relative stinker of a series, that doesn't bode well for the relative newcomers in Rogers, Khawaja and Smith with 19 Tests between them (including this)
I suspect the reviews are now in their heads, when you're struggling for form it is all too tempting to try anything including a review in desperation. Silly shots exacerbate the problem, technical flaws become glaringly obvious to all and sundry. Are there better batsmen out there? Quite possibly, but how many and who do you drop, and will they just suffer the same as those in the side already?
You could call upon someone like Hussey, he said he's available. He's never played a Test, despite playing 69 ODIs and 39 T20Is.
BBC Sport - Ashes 2013: David Hussey says he is ready to help Aussies
Warner might add some fight to the batting, but he took that too literally so is a bad boy excluded. Cowan is another whose form looked decent, averaged 38 after 8 Tests and that has dipped to 31.28 after averaging 26.68 in his last 10 Tests with a HS of just 86 and scoring just two other fifties.
The aussies need to show grit next innings, if they don't then those who don't could well be axed. But then England used 29 players in the 1989 Ashes series and lost 0-4, 16 players on the 90/91 and 94/95 Ashes tour and lost 0-3 and 1-3 respectively, it doesn't necessarily help any keep changing players.
Harris has worked out as a replacement for Starc, Khawaja has yet to prove a lot better than Cowan and if he gets a duck 2nd innings will match his total of 14 runs from the 1st Test. Ironically Watson is getting a lot of flak yet top scored yesterday, only one innings wonders Hughes (81no out of 82 runs), Agar (98 out of 114) and Pattinson (25no out of 37) are above him in the series averages, and only Agar has scored more runs.
Yah application is a big question mark. Look at Maddinson for example, who just goes after everyone. He's like Warner on steroids 
Yet he's fasttracked into this A side, and has shown no signs of crease occupying thus far in these tours.
There's no one out there that could be an obvious inclusion. Depth is poor. Look at the Australia A team where they are playing Henriques and Maxwell at 5 and 6, where neither really deserves a batting spot that high in my opinion. They'd be about #7 quality at Test level. I'm not sure what Joe Burns or Callum Ferguson has to do to get a spot in one of these teams...bowl and think a lot of themselves, obviously. Neither Burns or Ferguson are Ponting reborn, but they have to be better options than the all-rounder guys.
With every run in county cricket he scores, it's only a matter of time before the media really gets on the Simon Katich - why was he ever dropped - bandwagon.
The key loss is bloody Mike Hussey though. I could handle Watson, Rogers, Smith, Clarke and Hughes, but the agony finding a 6th guy with Cowan, Khawaja and Warner all doing nothing shows how much Hussey is missed. Selfish bastard, retiring 6 months before an Ashes...
Yet he's fasttracked into this A side, and has shown no signs of crease occupying thus far in these tours.There's no one out there that could be an obvious inclusion. Depth is poor. Look at the Australia A team where they are playing Henriques and Maxwell at 5 and 6, where neither really deserves a batting spot that high in my opinion. They'd be about #7 quality at Test level. I'm not sure what Joe Burns or Callum Ferguson has to do to get a spot in one of these teams...bowl and think a lot of themselves, obviously. Neither Burns or Ferguson are Ponting reborn, but they have to be better options than the all-rounder guys.
With every run in county cricket he scores, it's only a matter of time before the media really gets on the Simon Katich - why was he ever dropped - bandwagon.
The key loss is bloody Mike Hussey though. I could handle Watson, Rogers, Smith, Clarke and Hughes, but the agony finding a 6th guy with Cowan, Khawaja and Warner all doing nothing shows how much Hussey is missed. Selfish bastard, retiring 6 months before an Ashes...
StinkyBoHoon
National Board President
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I still think this all started when Hughes was dropped from the ashes '09 tour and watson was brought in as a make shift opener and has inexplicably kept his place. for 4 years!!!
He is an awful batsman, he really, really is. there were better players around back then, jacques, a younger rogers, dave hussey. The team was jiggered about a bit with and now so much rot has set in it's going to be a mammoth task rebuilding it.
the one thing though I don't get is players like marsh and ferguson going backwards, sure there are some other examples of players for australia just fading form wise like mid 2000s indian fast bowlers. never been a problem for australia before.
He is an awful batsman, he really, really is. there were better players around back then, jacques, a younger rogers, dave hussey. The team was jiggered about a bit with and now so much rot has set in it's going to be a mammoth task rebuilding it.
the one thing though I don't get is players like marsh and ferguson going backwards, sure there are some other examples of players for australia just fading form wise like mid 2000s indian fast bowlers. never been a problem for australia before.
Spickery
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The Ashes when they are held in England would be the worst time for Australia's batting line-up to collapse, in the fashion that they have. It is winter in Australia so there is no domestic cricket being played. That rules out the option of the including a batsman that is preforming well in Australia into the Ashes squad.
The batsman in the Australia A team are not doing much better. Glenn Maxwell and Alex Doolan preformed the best with the bat across Australia A's two innings. None of the Australian batsman managed to go on a and make a century though. This worrying is because these players are meant to be the next in line for a senior call-up and they are playing against a developing team in Zimbabwe.
Australia are basically stuck with the batsman they have. Some big improvement needs to be made from the Australian batsman or this Ashes series will turn into a whitewash win for England.
The batsman in the Australia A team are not doing much better. Glenn Maxwell and Alex Doolan preformed the best with the bat across Australia A's two innings. None of the Australian batsman managed to go on a and make a century though. This worrying is because these players are meant to be the next in line for a senior call-up and they are playing against a developing team in Zimbabwe.
Australia are basically stuck with the batsman they have. Some big improvement needs to be made from the Australian batsman or this Ashes series will turn into a whitewash win for England.
Punk_Sk8r
National Board President
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I just find it hilarious for years I've been hearing "SHANE WATSON SO GREAT SO AMAZING ALL THE POTENTIAL"
yet he hasn't done anything...sometimes someone may have all the potential but that doesn't mean they can fulfil it, it doesn't mean they have all pieces of the puzzle. overrated.
yet he hasn't done anything...sometimes someone may have all the potential but that doesn't mean they can fulfil it, it doesn't mean they have all pieces of the puzzle. overrated.
War
Chairman of Selectors
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Well we all know Katich was never recalled after the 2010/11 Ashes because of his altercation with Clarke. Fact is Katich could have still being played today because he has been scoring runs ever since 2011 fairly consistently.
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This is a strange statement. You make it sound as if Hughes was dropped incorrectly during the 2009 Ashes & Watson hasn't been worth his place as an opener in the last 4 years. Then compound that by saying watson is a "awful" batsman.
Fact is after his super debut tour in S Africa, England (Flintoff) found of Hughes technical flaws pretty early in that series & thus he was dropped. Chris Martin & Chris Tremlett in future series exposed his flaws outside off-stump which is why he was dropped until his return at the end of 2012.
Watson obviously has not stepped up (scored more hundreds) during his time as a test opener as he has in ODI/T20s & at age 32 when wonders if he ever will. But he still averaged 42 as a test opener - an awful player doesn't average that high in most cases.
Jaques was supposed to be the long term opener post Hayden/Langer - but he's been out of the reckoning since 2008 due to a back injury & has never been the same.
Rogers although he deserves his chance now, i don't think one can seriously say he seriously always deserved a chance. After all if one is to be honest when he got his chance vs India in 2008 - he was already 31 & the time you had a young Hughes banging on the door.
D Hussey yes maybe he deserved a chance at test, have advocated for him before, but i'd say his fellow victorian Brad Hodge was even more deserving.
S Marsh, Hughes, Warner, Khawaja, Ferguson even Cameron White to a level
are all young talented AUS batsman that are all seriously guilty of not living up to their early promise. If they all had AUS would not be in any problems today because the young talented fast bowlers have made an impression already in international cricket.
We differ completely! I think Watson for Hughes move was one of the few good moves Hilditch made. Hughes was a deer in the headlights, and his improved technique now speaks to the benefits of being dropped. While Watson played really well in Test cricket for a couple of years there. He is still excellent in the short forms - has been since 2008 when he began opening. He was the Allan Border medallist as Australia's best player in
back to back years of 2010 and 2011, despite going against guys like Clarke and Hussey. The only questionable part has been waiting these last 2 years for Watson to produce what he did from 2009-2011 in Test cricket. When you look at the lack of batting talent in Australia, can you really blame the selectors for persisting with him?
To illustrate, Watson from 2009-2010/11:
19 Tests, 1696 runs, 49.88 average, 2 100s, 14 50s
and it wasn't because he'd given up bowling to move to open, his bowling was still useful and effective: 29 wickets in those 19 Tests, average of 29.41
An all-rounder scoring 90 runs per Test @ 50, and taking 1.5 wickets @ 30 is pretty damn good. It's basically what Jacques Kallis has done over his career. You can say it's only 19 Tests, but that's basically half of Watson's career thus far. If you use the glass half full approach, he's an excellent player going through a bad run, right?
Disclaimer: I am a Watson fan. There's no one I wish to score a century more than him, but I'm increasingly realising it may not happen...
He's a frustrating guy to follow eg. he smacks runs and looks Australia's best bat in the warm up games in India and in England before Champions Trophy, yet doesn't produce in the bigger games. Not sure he's the answer going forward, but I hope he can solve the issues and get some runs.
angryangy
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I tend to agree in that going from Hughes to Watson created a strategy dominated by a successful gamble and no actual planning. It really starts with giving the boot to Hayden at a time when many believed Hughes was the second coming anyway. But the impetuous selection and axing of the 20 year old soon meant that Australia were no longer selecting openers to open. They quickly adopted a short-termist policy for the openers when they also had an ageing middle order that they weren't prepared to deal with.
They were also beholden to keep Watson on as an opener because that was the only time he'd played well for Australia. As his form declined and Australia realised they needed actual openers and players under 35, Watson started to get shuffled around. Many complained that it was the change in the batting order that deprived Watson of form and that Watson's former glories would be restored at the top of the batting. Watson's current batting performances reveal that he must face the demons of his planted left foot if he is to continue batting anywhere in the order at all.
They were also beholden to keep Watson on as an opener because that was the only time he'd played well for Australia. As his form declined and Australia realised they needed actual openers and players under 35, Watson started to get shuffled around. Many complained that it was the change in the batting order that deprived Watson of form and that Watson's former glories would be restored at the top of the batting. Watson's current batting performances reveal that he must face the demons of his planted left foot if he is to continue batting anywhere in the order at all.
