West Indies vs South Africa - The greatest battle never played

[War]

Many of the very knowledgeable cricket fans are well aware of the the amount of great cricketers than South Africa had during their isolation from world cricket. But every time i look at it & shake my head with disappoint i can't help but wonder during that period while they were out, the windies were dominant & really had no competition for 20 years.

If South Africa weren't banned, damn we could have saw some great cricket & a great rivalry could have have been formed. For example these two sides:

WEST INDIES 79/80

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Kallicharan
Rowe
Lloyd
Murray
Marshall
Roberts
Holding
Garner

2nd Test: Australia v West Indies at Melbourne, Dec 29, 1979 - Jan 1, 1980 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo


SOUTH AFRICA REBELS 1982

Cook
Richards
Kirsten
Pollock
Rice
Procter
Kourie
Jennings
Le Roux
Jefferies
Van der Bijl

1st 'TEST': South Africa v England XI at Johannesburg, 12-15 Mar 1982

Could cheat a bit a put Allan Lamb & Tony Greig into that South Africa XI, but regardless its still an awfully strong side that, the perfect side if any at the time to challenge the windies as the best in the world given their all-round strenght & depth. Not saying they would beat the windies but geez i really feel cricket was robbed of a great contest at that time..

 

[icyman]

Cricket was definitely robbed that time. Had South Africa been playing, they would have won a World Cup by now for sure. As for Test cricket, I agree that some of the greatest names would have faced against each other.

 

[BlueString]

Cricket was definitely robbed that time. Had South Africa been playing, they would have won a World Cup by now for sure. As for Test cricket, I agree that some of the greatest names would have faced against each other.

I don't know if 'robbed' is the right word. Unfortunate, yes, but not robbed.

The ICC was right to ban any outright racist country from being taken seriously on any level. Would they have won World Cups? Definitely. But if you give the world cup to a country with apartheid, you have just destroyed the game.

 

[6ry4nj]

I don't know if 'robbed' is the right word. Unfortunate, yes, but not robbed.

The ICC was right to ban any outright racist country from being taken seriously on any level. Would they have won World Cups? Definitely. But if you give the world cup to a country with apartheid, you have just destroyed the game.

Fair point. Cricketing history is quite a bit poorer by missing out on that contest. But it is far, far richer for taking a stand and contributing to the improvement of the wider world. Especially when (as far as I'm aware) it's the only time it has done so.

On a side point, I can think of a few World Cup countries (not naming names for the present) that still have a huge problem with institutionalized racism. Indeed, I wouldn't be surprised if they all still do. Disappointed yes as I would love to be wrong about this - and may well be.

But not surprised.

But we're gonna give the World Cup to one of them anyway . (I'm only HALF serious )

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

I don't know if 'robbed' is the right word. Unfortunate, yes, but not robbed.

The ICC was right to ban any outright racist country from being taken seriously on any level. Would they have won World Cups? Definitely. But if you give the world cup to a country with apartheid, you have just destroyed the game.

I agree with this. Ultimately, excluding South Africa from sport and world affairs was a step everyone needed to take.

regardless of what was lost in players like richards, pollock, proctor etc, what was gained was worth so much more.

 

[pcfan123]

I don't know if 'robbed' is the right word. Unfortunate, yes, but not robbed.

The ICC was right to ban any outright racist country from being taken seriously on any level. Would they have won World Cups? Definitely. But if you give the world cup to a country with apartheid, you have just destroyed the game.

I agree 100%, I am not one for politics and sport to mix, but apartheid could not be ignored.

 

[Symptom_Control]

Many of the very knowledgeable cricket fans are well aware of the the amount of great cricketers than South Africa had during their isolation from world cricket. But every time i look at it & shake my head with disappoint i can't help but wonder during that period while they were out, the windies were dominant & really had no competition for 20 years.

If South Africa weren't banned, damn we could have saw some great cricket & a great rivalry could have have been formed. For example these two sides:

WEST INDIES 79/80

Greenidge
Haynes
Richards
Kallicharan
Rowe
Lloyd
Murray
Marshall
Roberts
Holding
Garner

2nd Test: Australia v West Indies at Melbourne, Dec 29, 1979 - Jan 1, 1980 | Cricket Scorecard | ESPN Cricinfo


SOUTH AFRICA REBELS 1982

Cook
Richards
Kirsten
Pollock
Rice
Procter
Kourie
Jennings
Le Roux
Jefferies
Van der Bijl

1st 'TEST': South Africa v England XI at Johannesburg, 12-15 Mar 1982

Could cheat a bit a put Allan Lamb & Tony Greig into that South Africa XI, but regardless its still an awfully strong side that, the perfect side if any at the time to challenge the windies as the best in the world given their all-round strenght & depth. Not saying they would beat the windies but geez i really feel cricket was robbed of a great contest at that time..

You could put Kepler Wessels and Ken McEwan in too, what a side
still lacking a quality spinner though

but I reckon that the great WI sides of the late 70s-Mid 80s would have beaten all comers, perhaps with the exception of some of Bradman's teams

 

[War]

You could put Kepler Wessels and Ken McEwan in too, what a side
still lacking a quality spinner though

but I reckon that the great WI sides of the late 70s-Mid 80s would have beaten all comers, perhaps with the exception of some of Bradman's teams

Ah yes i forgot Wessels.

They did have quality spinners TBF. These two guys have great reputations:

- Denys Hobson | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

- Alan Kourie | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

Windies didn't become # 1 until 1976. So probably SA would have been # 1 from 1970-76 if they weren't banned.

Thus when Windies were emerging in 76, the battle with the Saffies would have been electric.

War added 1 Minutes and 34 Seconds later...

I don't know if 'robbed' is the right word. Unfortunate, yes, but not robbed.

The ICC was right to ban any outright racist country from being taken seriously on any level. Would they have won World Cups? Definitely. But if you give the world cup to a country with apartheid, you have just destroyed the game.

Well i was presuming that when i said "robbed". That the aparthied would have been abolished in early 70s, thus Saffies could have played.

 

[Symptom_Control]

Ah yes i forgot Wessels.

They did have quality spinners TBF. These two guys have great reputations:

- Denys Hobson | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

- Alan Kourie | Cricket Players and Officials | ESPN Cricinfo

Windies didn't become # 1 until 1976. So probably SA would have been # 1 from 1970-76 if they weren't banned.

Thus when Windies were emerging in 76, the battle with the Saffies would have been electric.

War added 1 Minutes and 34 Seconds later...



Well i was presuming that when i said "robbed". That the aparthied would have been abolished in early 70s, thus Saffies could have played.

mmm, I dont really rate Kourie, saw him play a few times but maybe it was because his best was behind him...

 

[War]

mmm, I dont really rate Kourie, saw him play a few times but maybe it was because his best was behind him...

Oh ok. Never saw Kourie myself. So i'm basically given him his props based the fairly good accolades of those that played with him said.

 

[War]

In light of S Africa reaching # 1, i see two very nice articles reminiscing back the lost great proteas 1970s team has been revisited.

Mark Nicholas : Mark Nicholas: South Africa's superstars of '76 | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

Cricket Web - Features: The Lost Generation

Its always wonderful too look back at that side, since as most would know, that team technically would have dominated world cricket similar to Windies of 76-91 and Australia 95-2006/07.

Plus as the title of this thread, what a battle cricket fans missed between that S Africa and the West Indies.

My suspicious always has been that South Africa would totally dominated the entire 70s and would have throttled windies initially. But come the start of the 1980s, the windies would have regained supremacy, since some of the proteas rebel teams in the 1980s was not as strong their 70s compatriots.

 

[cricket_icon]

Forgetting all the political reasons for SA not playing, I'm not convinced with this entire "what a great team SA could have been in the 70s" argument. They would definitely have been competitive but the Aussies were still a great team as were the Windies. Pakistan were a very close 2nd or third throughout the 80s. Could SA really compete with them? I just don't know. While a handful of those players proved themselves on the highest stage, most of them feasted upon the county game. Especially the batsmen, making a name playing medium pacers in England isn't exactly a glowing recommendation.

 

[sifter132]

^Yes that will be the ultimate question - would they have handled the step up in quality, touring etc. Some guys go on to do well at the top level, others can't handle it. So I think it's fair to assume most of those SA boys would have done well, but to say that XI would be as good as they were in county cricket is not quite accurate in my view.

Shame we never saw them play...

 

[cricket_icon]

^^ Very well put. I'd give Ramprakash as the prime example of International Syndrome.

 

[MattW]

I agree with this. Ultimately, excluding South Africa from sport and world affairs was a step everyone needed to take.

Would having a South African team of Whites beaten by the West Indies not have done a huge blow to the racial superiority themes?

Sure, for England, Australia, etc with majority white teams - non engagement certainly was a far better policy, but for the West Indies, I think playing matches against them could have potentially sent a different message about equality.