3rd Test: Australia v England at The WACA, Perth, 13-17 Dec

[Aalay]

Stokes' batting looks pretty good to me. He was batting very well yesterday. Couple of straight drives and one of the cover drive that he played looked absolutely amazing. His bowling is not amazing but it is good enough. England has found a pretty solid all-rounder in him.

 

[War]

Well I only said I thought Stokes could bat about 5 pages ago but I'm still going to pat myself on the bat about it.

Jaffa to bowl Clarke as well.

Flintoff is a difficult guy to assess, really. A genuinely awesome 95+mph bowler with a huge heart, never went round the park, but didn't get a lot of wickets either. A fearsome hitter of the ball, but a batsman who rarely made hundreds and whose technique was fundamentally compromised by years of clubbing everything for 6 at the lower levels of the game ; he was literally seen as a Viv Richards-level prodigy by many prior to his arrival in first class cricket, as they mistook his sheer physical strength for genius level batsmanship.

A massive personality beloved by the fans, but often unpopular in dressing rooms, and reportedly largely disliked by those in the game these days.

Whoa whoa, i've heard some strange revisionist interpretations of Flintoff career in this thread & this one is probably the weirdest - you sure you talking about the same Flintoff that the rest of the world knew?

 

[T.J.Hooker]

What part of any of that is controversial?

 

[War]

What part of any of that is controversial?

These parts:

"but often unpopular in dressing rooms, and reportedly largely disliked by those in the game these days".

I have never known/heard Freddie to be unpopular in the dressing rooms during his playing days - in fact i'd say he was immensely popular. Have seen any evidence that he disliked by those in the games these days either.



he was literally seen as a Viv Richards-level prodigy by many prior to his arrival in first class cricket, as they mistook his sheer physical strength for genius level batsmanship.


Dont recall anyone trying associating anything about Sir Viv to Freddie during his young days. I lived in Manchester during his younger days, Flintoff like many all-rounders, with his bit hitting was touted as the next Botham. He was mocked for his weight a lot between 98-2000.

But starting from the 2001/02 series in India, when he and Matt Hoggard was forced to lead a green attack vs the much vaunted India middle order after senior quicks Gough/Caddick didn't want to tour India due to the 9/11 attacks - Flintoff evolved into a world class all-rounder.

Also while its true he never got many hundreds & many massive wicket hauls. I personally always believed this was because of his injuries.

The 2005 Ashes while it was his greatest moment that everyone remembers him by, wasn't the really the peak of his career. In fact i don't think Flintoff ever reached his peak - especially with the bat in tests.

The 2005 Ashes was potentially the beginning of his peak. His batting while had village slogger ilk to it indeed, was improving. If you recall the 2006 series in India - his batting improved so much versus the spin (where he ones was a totally poor against) - averaging over 50 with the bat - scoring 4 50s in 5/6 innings that series.

But after that 2006 series, he kept getting injured repeatedly until he retired in 2009 & his batting never got to kick on.

Because one might recall when he came back from injuries after 2006, his bowling always was on point immediately - but his batting always took a a few games to click into gear.

 

[dancingmongoose]

It feels like a wicket will fall any minute now

 

[SpitfiresKent]

Well played Ben Stokes

 

[Aalay]

Yes, that was some batting by Ben Stokes. Coming in under huge pressure against this kind of bowling attack, it was really good to see him get that 100. Just realized he is only 22, brilliant find for England.

 

[Punk_Sk8r]

You know part of me thinks, if these two can get to 420 odd England might just have a chance. A shame our batting has let us down as this was a winnable chase.

 

[T.J.Hooker]

These parts:

"but often unpopular in dressing rooms, and reportedly largely disliked by those in the game these days".

I have never known/heard Freddie to be unpopular in the dressing rooms during his playing days - in fact i'd say he was immensely popular. Have seen any evidence that he disliked by those in the games these days either.

Well, maybe I'm wrong about that, or maybe I've overstated it.

Possibly I should say that I'd heard of his having a divisive effect on dressing rooms, or was not always the universally beloved figure the public perceived. Generally pros don't like to go on the record about dressing room stuff like that but it's the impression I've got from a few people over the years, and I've read allusions to these sorts of issues often enough - that Flintoff is not welcome in the England dressing room these days, for instance - that I'd just kind of thought it was the majority view of those "in the know".

IIRC Atherton has suggested he was not universally popular at Lancs, and Duncan Fletcher reportedly took a dim view of Flintoff's effect on the dressing room at times, especially as captain.

Flintoff can't stand Atherton, that's for sure, so there's some needle there from somewhere.

Like I said though, maybe I've got it wrong.

he was literally seen as a Viv Richards-level prodigy by many prior to his arrival in first class cricket, as they mistook his sheer physical strength for genius level batsmanship.

Dont recall anyone trying associating anything about Sir Viv to Freddie during his young days. I lived in Manchester during his younger days, Flintoff like many all-rounders, with his bit hitting was touted as the next Botham. He was mocked for his weight a lot between 98-2000.

I was in his age group and I played at Lancs. I first heard about him when he was 14, first saw him play at 15 (I was on the other team). By the time I got scouted at 16 he was already playing for Lancs seconds.

I knew quite a lot of people involved in the setup at Old Trafford through that. His batting stats as were absolutely phenomenal, and all the talk I heard about him prior to the age of 20 was about him smashing hundreds all over the place, and about the coaches at Lancs pressuring him to let the bowling go as it was a distraction and already giving him injury problems.

The only other guy in the country at the time posting stats like that with the bat as a junior was Marcus Trescothic, as far as I can remember.

 

[Insomniac]

If I was an Australian and Stokes somehow makes it past the first hour of this second session... I'd be very worried.

As for me... history in the making?

 

[Aalay]

Well played Australia, what a turnaround in just a few months.

 

[HawkAussie]

We have won the ashes

 

[Frostyvegi]

So tempted to trawl out some posts a month or so ago from a select few English supporters who were looking forward to this series..

 

[badb0y9124]

ashes are ours.

 

[Punk_Sk8r]

You know what I don't understand. When the analysts talk about Cook for example and say "they didn't give him any of his favorite shots, bowled full yadda yadda" he's one of the top international cricketers and batsmen in the world so what does it matter if he doesn't even get to play his favorite shot once, he should be able to play all shots to a WAY above average level.

Anyway, gratz aus!