3rd Test: Australia v England at The WACA, Perth, 13-17 Dec

[LiveLoveABD]

3) How many No.6's have England tried in their attempt to replace Collingwood? I believe Morgan, Bairstow, Taylor, Woakes and Stokes and from the look of things, they're now going to try Ballance. I have nothing against any of these guys, but while all looked talented, none was given a proper run other than Morgan you could argue. I like the look of Stokes, and I hope they don't drop him.

I should be an analyst!

 

[PackenHols]

Broad might be out anyway so that would force the selectors' hand.

There is no fracture and he came out to bat even when the game was already Australia's. Besides he seems to be walking better and in 8 days or whenever the next test is, I'll think he'll be find.

Australia deserved that Ashes more than we did. They just wanted it.

 

[Spickery]

Awesome effort from Australia to win the first 3 tests against England and return the urn back to Australia! You could see how much it meant to all of the Australian players by their celebrations. They had to do a lot of hard work to turn the momentum around and stay on top of England. Now the Australian players can enjoy their victory and rejoice in the fact that they have won the Ashes.

 

[Owzat]

Well played Ben Stokes

Yup, well played. Not sure 2nd innings scores made when the game is gone really show what someone is capable of, so far all his runs have pretty much come in the 2nd innings of a Test when England were beaten.

I still feel he isn't a Test six, as well played and deserved as his hundred may be it is what a batsman does in the 1st innings when the game is up for grabs

England's two biggest innings of the series so far have both been when set impossible targets, England were 20/2 at Adelaide (2nd innings) and 76/3 here, the aussies knowing they just needed time and they'd win meant runs were never really the issue.

Don't forget the field settings change when runs don't matter, as if the aussies (or anyone) would make it quite so easy 1st innings when leads are at stake and the match is decided. Had England made their 2nd innings total in the 1st innings then they may well have saved both games.

I wonder if there is a precedent for a side outscoring their 1st innings every Test.

1st Test : England 136 & 179
2nd Test : England 172 & 312
3rd Test : England 251 & 353

In fact there's a progression, each 1st innings getting bigger, likewise each 2nd innings. The thing that worries me with Stokes is this may lull England into retaining the same make up of the team, the way they've batted most of this series they ought to go to the make up should be put on their faces and dresses donned as they've played mainly like a bunch of girls!

I'd consider changing some of the faces in the side for the rest of the series, dump Carberry because he's just not the future and so far stuck in Ramprakash mode, even if he scored a heap of runs the contest is over and we'd just be keeping out someone who could be a future star opener - or arguably Root open, Bairstow or Ballance in.

You could then consider playing Stokes, I might even give the 30+ players all a rest but isn't that like 2/3 of the team. Without checking I'm guessing Cook, Carberry, Pietersen, Bell, Prior, Swann, Anderson and Bresnan are all 30+ - or damned near.

In batting order, 28, 33, 22, 33, 31, 22, 31, 28, 27, 34, 31 with Cook and Bresnan 28, the rest I was spot on and only two players below 27. Root is all but 23, but that is a team all about the now, little for the future. If it were football I'd be concerned if my team put out SIX 30+ year olds, three aged 27-28 and only a couple of relative youngsters, as it is there needs to be someone in line to come in and replace them but any time someone comes in they're either just as old or not given a proper chance. (and the Stokes issue I've cited I have is not with age, but whether he's a number six or not)

 

[barmyarmy]

Well done Australia.
I actually feel that, as the scores show, we are starting to compete but obviously first innings is the time to make your runs.
I don't know if the curators will now make sure that the MCG and SCG are totally flat but England's only real chance of avoiding the whitewash is if they are not.

 

[Skater]

This has been, quite simply, an embarrassment.

Well done Australia, who have shown a ruthless determination to win this series, but England have hardly competed at all. Even when we won those three series on the bounce we never did it by completely thrashing the Aussies like they have done to us.

This Australian side is good, sure, but certainly not as good as we have made them look. Serious questions need to be asked about the England team now and for the future. Has Prior had it? Has Anderson had it? Do we need to be looking for a new spinner? If Andy Flower decides to call it a day after the Sydney Test we will be looking for a new coach too and I hope to god it isn't Giles.

My impression is that we could now be entering an era where the Ashes continually change hands to the side whoever is at home. I fully expect us to win the urn back in 2015, just as I expect the Aussies to get it back again in 2016/17.

 

[Umair7]

4 years 3 months 25 days and the wait is finally over #TheURNReturns #TheAshes

BarmyArmy wont miss Johnson anymore

 

[War]

Before the series i went for a 2-2 draw because i did feel the vulnerabilities ENG batting was showing in 2013 could be exposed by AUS bowlers - but i wasn't totally convinced about AUS batting, thus i reckon ENG bowlers could hold their own against them.

But AUS bowlers owned ENG batting so much, that the AUS batting which IMO is still not perfect (Rogers, Watson, Bailey are still works in progress as complete test bats) - the ENG bowlers after bailing the batsmen out for last 18 months (Anderson & Swann who have bowled the most balls in test cricket than any bowlers during this period) - just couldn't bail them out under the assault of the AUS batsmen - led by Warner.

ENG knew they had problems & i reckon Flower & co knew their wasn't much they could do to fix it. They simply hoped that AUS would continue to self implode & the Ashes would be similar to the summer in ENG.

Cause their selection was also a bit bad. Flower & co have done great things but i believe they retained trust in too many veterans & didn't take adequate back-up.

Why was Tremlett picked? It was obvious in county cricket that his pace had declined from his 20100/11 Ashes peak. Onions really had to tour.

Why was Compton not on tour?. Fact is they dropped him because he spoke out publicly about his axing. I don't mind that Carberry got a chance, both him and Compton should have toured - thus the talented Balance probably shouldn't have just yet.

Why wasn't a proven back-up keeper to Prior taken. As aforementioned the selectors simply was backing & hoping that Prior form would return - they didn't seriously expect that have to use Bairstow as keeper. If they really thought of having a solid back-up keeper bat - Steven Davies would have toured instead.

The next big problem which was highlighted by George Dobell is the county game structure these days: The Ashes 2013-14 : George Dobell on how England lost the series | Cricket Features | England in Australia - The Ashes | ESPN Cricinfo

The domestic system
It is no coincidence that, when the England side enjoyed its best years, it was on the back of a sharp improvement in the standard of county cricket. The move to two divisions, the introduction of promotion and relegation, the appearance of strong overseas and non-England-qualified players heralded a particularly competitive era in the county game, with the likes of Justin Langer remarking that it was as tough domestic cricket as he had experienced.

But the ECB could not resist tinkering. It brought in young player incentives, tightened work-permit criteria, took the best players out of the county game for reasons as diverse as Lions matches, rest and gym sessions and created a schedule that squeezed the County Championship into the margins of the season. Furthermore, it allowed games to be staged on homogenised slabs of mud which bear little resemblance to those on which international cricket is played. Many of the initiatives were well intentioned but nearly all of them have backfired.

Indeed while the changes have been well intention to help push local English talent, i reckon the cutting down of the kolpak and general foreign players have indeed hurt the quality of cricket domestically. Probably a better balance does need to be struck going forward.

Overall though I dont necessary believe ENG are in decline. The emergence of Root & Stokes this year for example is clear indication of the young talent around. They just need to freshen up in a few area's .

However this defeat does widen the gap between ENG & S Africa. S Africa are wide # 1 & over the next 12 months England, AUS & IND will be battling out to see who the real 2nd best to the proteas in tests.

 

[barmyarmy]

Right...
My team for Melbourne:

Cook
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Ballance
Stokes
Bairstow
Broad (if injured Bresnan)
Swann
Anderson
Finn

 

[SpitfiresKent]

^Not a fan of Carberry?

 

[barmyarmy]

I've got no problem with him but playing him now is pointless. He was brought in as a stop-gap measure and we may as well look to the future at this point.

 

[Skater]

^Not a fan of Carberry?

I think Carberry has been unlucky. Hasn't he been the second highest scorer in the series for us? A few times I've seen him play on and get bowled, which is terrible luck.

Personally though I think Compton was a handy opener who wasn't given enough time. You could usually rely on him to get 40 or more to get you started. I can't believe that Compton's England career is over.

My XI for Melbourne:

Cook
Carberry
Bell
Pietersen
Root
Stokes
Prior
Swann
Broad (if not fit, Bresnan)
Rankin
Finn

 

[karolkarol]

I've got no problem with him but playing him now is pointless. He was brought in as a stop-gap measure and we may as well look to the future at this point.

Like Australia looked to the future with Rogers?

I reckon Carberry is about as good as we have got at the minute and he should be given a decent crack of the whip.

That said, if Trott is gone for good or an extended period of time I would have Compton back in and about the squad for his doggedness. Something this batting lineup have missed massively with Trott's lack of form and subsequent departure.

Given some further decent EPP numbers I reckon you could see Sam Robson come the summer.

 

[barmyarmy]

Rogers who has the worst average of any Aussie batsman?

 

[NathanScott45]

Like Australia looked to the future with Rogers?

Giving Phil Hughes more time in the domestic setup is only furthering his game more and more. Rogers is healthy competition for Hughes, and having lost his place for a first time in a while he's smashed a brace of tons and a double to accompany it in his last 4 Sheffield Shield matches.
Well played Aussies, though I wonder if this series does go on to be a whitewash whether we'll just forget our issues [Bailey/Watson/Rogers looking incomplete etc.] and tour South Africa, which would be a terrible, terrible miscalculation to say the least.

Anywho, where were all you Perth residents, poor support guys, poor support indeed!