England Tour of West Indies 2024- 3 ODIs 5 T20Is

[Aislabie]

This was genuinely one of the least enjoyable England ODI performances I've ever sat through.

Absolutely nothing of any substance with the bat, in particular just a complete lack of any role clarity being put into the selection of the team (Jacob Bethell walking in at four?!) resulting in a complete lack of direction against a good-but-not-great West Indies attack.

Then the bowling & fielding effort was even worse: once the ball stopped being new, there wasn't a single bowler who looked able to make anything happen. Adil Rashid had a bad day at the office, which can happen, but that really exposed the lack of front-line bowling options actually included in this team.

And what is the point in selecting Dan Mousley if he's not going to bowl? Why did this team have Mousley and Jamie Overton (399 List A runs @ 16.62 from 43 List A games with a best of 40*) playing as specialist batters? Where is Sam Hain? What is going on?

 

[Supreme General]

Realised that this thread didn’t actually exist yet.


Anyway, finally break through Carty and Hope partnership

 

[Supreme General]

First international wicket for John Turner

 

[wasteyouryouth]

This was genuinely one of the least enjoyable England ODI performances I've ever sat through.

Absolutely nothing of any substance with the bat, in particular just a complete lack of any role clarity being put into the selection of the team (Jacob Bethell walking in at four?!) resulting in a complete lack of direction against a good-but-not-great West Indies attack.

Then the bowling & fielding effort was even worse: once the ball stopped being new, there wasn't a single bowler who looked able to make anything happen. Adil Rashid had a bad day at the office, which can happen, but that really exposed the lack of front-line bowling options actually included in this team.

And what is the point in selecting Dan Mousley if he's not going to bowl? Why did this team have Mousley and Jamie Overton (399 List A runs @ 16.62 from 43 List A games with a best of 40*) playing as specialist batters? Where is Sam Hain? What is going on?

It is kind of baffling that someone like Sam Hain isn't picked for this tour. He might not get in a first XI but when the likes of Brook, Duckett, Root aren't involved surely he's worth another look. There's plenty of time for Bethell and Mousley.

 

[Aislabie]

It is kind of baffling that someone like Sam Hain isn't picked for this tour. He might not get in a first XI but when the likes of Brook, Duckett, Root aren't involved surely he's worth another look. There's plenty of time for Bethell and Mousley.

When I tried to pick a squad for this tour, I ended up with:

1. Phil Salt
2. Jonny Bairstow
3. Sam Hain
4. James Vince
5. Will Jacks
6. Liam Livingstone
7. Sam Curran
8. Chris Jordan
9. Adil Rashid
10. Jofra Archer
11. John Turner

• Tom Banton
• Michael Pepper
• Jacob Bethell
• Dan Mousley
• Paul Walter
• Tom Hartley
• Saqib Mahmood
• Jafer Chohan

I also decided not to fly people out to squeeze in an extra tour between Pakistan and NZ (so no Cox or Rehan) and also presume Buttler and Topley are both injured?

 

[Supreme General]

Seeing James Vince in an England shirt one more time would be a war crime imo

 

[Aislabie]

Seeing James Vince in an England shirt one more time would be a war crime imo

It's hard to know who else to pick when there's not been a meaningful List A game player in England since 2019

 

[wasteyouryouth]

When I tried to pick a squad for this tour, I ended up with:

1. Phil Salt
2. Jonny Bairstow
3. Sam Hain
4. James Vince
5. Will Jacks
6. Liam Livingstone
7. Sam Curran
8. Chris Jordan
9. Adil Rashid
10. Jofra Archer
11. John Turner

• Tom Banton
• Michael Pepper
• Jacob Bethell
• Dan Mousley
• Paul Walter
• Tom Hartley
• Saqib Mahmood
• Jafer Chohan

I also decided not to fly people out to squeeze in an extra tour between Pakistan and NZ (so no Cox or Rehan) and also presume Buttler and Topley are both injured?

I think they've moved beyond Bairstow, Jordan and the likes of Vince at this point.

Banton a possible but he's ultimately competing for the same spot as Salt, Jacks and Duckett.

Lawrence, Abell and Hain are three who have been in or around the side that might have had a shout. But I guess trying a specialist number 8 batter is more exciting.

One case for the likes of Cox, Bethell, Mousley is they view them as potential members of the 2027 side. Therefore, due to the lack of List A cricket any of them are likely to get, ODIs are the only chance to see if they're any good.

Paul Walter is definitely a dice I'd have rolled!

 

[Supreme General]

2021 Liam Livingstone is well and truly back

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Great innings from Livingstone, masterful in a big run chase. Impressive knocks from Bethell and Curran too.

 

[Aislabie]

I think they've moved beyond Bairstow, Jordan and the likes of Vince at this point.

I agree that they have, but I don't think it's the right call personally.

You've got some chronically inexperienced young players here and they could learn so much from how Bairstow and Jordan manage a game - and they'd have exlerience for Livingstone to lean on if they see him as leadership material.

That senior statesman role should also be Buttler's if & when he's fit again.

Banton a possible but he's ultimately competing for the same spot as Salt, Jacks and Duckett.

True. I don't think he's close to those three yet, but throwing him some game time can't hurt.

Lawrence, Abell and Hain are three who have been in or around the side that might have had a shout. But I guess trying a specialist number 8 batter is more exciting.

I completely forgot Tom Abell was a hyped up player. Lawrence may genuinely have managed to do so badly as a makeshift Test opener that it's tanked his international career in all formats, which is genuinely impressive.

One case for the likes of Cox, Bethell, Mousley is they view them as potential members of the 2027 side. Therefore, due to the lack of List A cricket any of them are likely to get, ODIs are the only chance to see if they're any good.

That is genuinely a very good point.

The Hundred has a lot to answer for, unironically. I'm still someone who'd have a league and a cup for each format in county cricket though so I'm obviously not in line with Rob Key's vision.

Paul Walter is definitely a dice I'd have rolled!

All day long. And you could get a full World Cup cycle out of him, but he doesn't seem to be in the conversation at all.

 

[ddrap14]

they could learn so much from how Bairstow and Jordan manage a game

Bairstow maybe (I'd love for him to teach them how to manage the end of an over ) but I think Jordan's pretty washed at this point. Reece Topley would do a good job of this if he was fit.

At least you're not suggesting Moeen Ali

ETA: England should also probably have another batting allrounder in that team over Saqib/Turner. Just commit to the Surrey bit already.

 

[Aislabie]

At least you're not suggesting Moeen Ali

He would have been one of my two candidates to replace Eoin Morgan as white ball skipper. Quite obviously that ship is long gone

 

[Supreme General]

ETA: England should also probably have another batting allrounder in that team over Saqib/Turner. Just commit to the Surrey bit already.

That was us last game with Jamie Overton as a specialist batter. A job which is now Sam Curran’s.


This bowling scorecard is genuinely a piece of art

Post automatically merged: Nov 3, 2024

At least you're not suggesting Moeen Ali

If he comes out of retirement for a third time, I’m gonna lose it

 

[wasteyouryouth]

Based on the evidence of these two matches, for the test series in NZ, I'd give Pope the gloves and pick Bethell instead of Cox.