2023 ICC Cricket World Cup (October/November) - India

[CerealKiller]

Also, as a captain, either your captaincy or your form should be good

He was literally SA's best batter in the year before the WC, which you conveniently ignore

 

[CerealKiller]

Let's be clear on one thing. This was a South African side led jointly by Bavuma and Markram. The side seemed to respond more to Aiden Markram whenever he took charge. Their path to success can be attributed to the wins scored by Markram.

Yeah, let’s even give the credit for all the wins to the vice-captain
You are acting insane

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Good morning

 

[Aravind.]

Poor Bavuma, who had poor world cup tournament, but close to 50 average in odi's and beat Australia in odi series before world cup. He is being used as scapegoat doesn't make any sense. Markram first needs to establish himself into the side with average in mid 30's, he has failed more times then he has delivered. Bavuma is the right choice, until someone who is better than him for captaincy arrives to the scene.

 

[Till Valhalla]

I think we had enough of ICYman quota

Over the limit

 

[Bevab]

Doesn't happen with other countries as well. No reason why he should be preferred if his team has won everything in its way. His own form and tactics need to be considered as well.

Bavuma's leadership is laughable. Haven't heard anyone sing accolades of him. The mere fact that a half injured person wanted to be at the helm in a KO game is questionable. It's a weird hunger to be the 1st SA captain to win a World Cup KO.

Also, as a captain, either your captaincy or your form should be good. In this case, it was neither. We've had captains like Ganguly who have been out of form for lengthy periods, but their tactics were spot on.

You've merely quoted an older article. The one I mentioned is the latest and still talks about the quota requirements at large.

His side. His tactics were weird. Single handedly destroyed by allowing them to take singles and close the gap.

What an utterly preposterous point. Test side form vs ODI form? Wonder what you're smoking!

Me?

I did say Babar was poor and he seemed lost. I comment as I see it.

Let's be clear on one thing. This was a South African side led jointly by Bavuma and Markram. The side seemed to respond more to Aiden Markram whenever he took charge. Their path to success can be attributed to the wins scored by Markram.

Bavuma never really seemed to make tactical changes. Babar was marginally better, given that his own batting form was better than Temba's.

• Did you miss the part where I said he was the second top scorer in the T20 competition at the time of him being made the captain? If his team wins multiple trophies across formats under his leadership then why do you think that happened without his input? Why do you refuse to give the man any sort of credit, I wonder?

• If you think any sportsperson in any team game would be willing to sit out voluntarily for even the most mundane of fixtures then I have a bridge to sell to you. If they hadn’t picked him and still lost, the headlines would have been very different and you may well be here criticising the bloke for not risking his body for a historic chance at getting into the final. The decision to not play him should have been from the coaching staff and even from their perspective it is a very tough decision to make in hindsight. They didn’t have prime Graeme Smith sitting on the bench to replace him FFS.

• If you think there hasn’t been praise for the way Bavuma’s led the side for the last few years then you’ve not followed the team at all. Which I wouldn’t be surprised by given some of your takes on this topic.

• What singles? The Aussies were scoring 2-3 runs per over during the middle overs apart from the few odd boundaries that were inevitable. I’d like to see you come up with a field whilst defending an underpar total that results in consistent maidens and zero boundaries with a restriction of only four fielders outside the thirty yard circle in an ODI.
  
  
• I’m not sure if you’ve understood what I meant with the test point. The point was that I had no bias towards him given I’ve advocated for his axing in the past in tests. His ODI form leading up to the WC was world class, I’m not sure why you refuse to acknowledge that.
  
  
• How on earth did Bavuma not make any tactical changes? His first change bowler yesterday was literally a part-timer in the powerplay while the openers were thrashing his superior opening bowlers, despite the natural advantage of an offie against two lefties that is still a risky play. They’ve consistently changed their bowlers and bowling plans across games during this WC too.

Pretty hilarious to attribute all of South Africa’s best moments in this event to Markram and put the blame for all of their woes on Bavuma. Yet again, what is it with you and refusing to give any form of credit to this man?

EDIT: If you’re referring to the Guardian article that you edited in one of your older posts that is from 2016, mine was from 2019 IIRC before the WC. Pretty sure 2016 is older than 2019 and you’re ignoring what I mentioned from the article either with regards to the WC squad and playing XI not being subjected to monitoring anymore.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

I must however give credit to @icyman on sticking to his points no matter how wrong they are. It takes man of steel balls to continue with the wrong trajectory throughout without an ounce of accountability. Beliefs are one thing in an opinion which is what you always stick to, but facts are facts buddy. People have called out facts so probably sometime it is ok to accept that your belief which can still be your belief is wrong and facts presented are right.

Things/Beliefs you have shared

1. Bavuma horrible captain
2. Kohli statpadder
3. Siraj worst bowler in history of cricket
4. Icyman's belief > facts.

While I have no problem at all to what you say or believe in as we all know stats say otherwise, it would be a little wise to take an L sometime. We love discussing with you, you are a true champ when we troll you or you troll us but this Bavuma thing is naah naah!

 

[Aravind.]

Okay guys enough of Icy & Bevan fight on Bavuma, let's now fight about the finals

 

[Bevab]

Poor Bavuma, who had poor world cup tournament, but close to 50 average in odi's and beat Australia in odi series before world cup. He is being used as scapegoat doesn't make any sense. Markram first needs to establish himself into the side with average in mid 30's, he has failed more times then he has delivered. Bavuma is the right choice, until someone who is better than him for captaincy arrives to the scene.

A lot of it from what I’ve noticed has been from…

1. Certain elements of the South African media with a known history of bias. All that’s missing is some words from the 90s Proteas cricketers who had their formative years during apartheid.
   
   
2. Indian media who are cashing in on the clickbait and views from our folk who seem to have a weird prejudice against Bavuma from what I’ve seen on social media and then seem to think that South African sport and society is being subjected to grave injustice due to their racial policies with a healthy dose of bias from certain policies close to home.
   

I think the 2025 CT is a good stepping off point for Bavuma if they choose to go into that direction. Markram is most likely well established in the side as a batter alone let alone a batting all-rounder and he’s got a great chance to lead his side in a T20 WC next year for experience.

 

[harishankar]

It’s not as though SA were winning ICC tournaments before Bavuma became captain. On the whole semifinal finish is about par for the course.

It‘s not Bavuma. It really is a jinx.

 

[Aravind.]

A lot of it from what I’ve noticed has been from…

1. Certain elements of the South African media with a known history of bias. All that’s missing is some words from the 90s Proteas cricketers who had their formative years during apartheid.
   
   
2. Indian media who are cashing in on the clickbait and views from our folk who seem to have a weird prejudice against Bavuma from what I’ve seen on social media and then seem to think that South African sport and society is being subjected to grave injustice due to their racial policies with a healthy dose of bias from certain policies close to home.

I think the 2025 CT is a good stepping off point for Bavuma if they choose to go into that direction. Markram is most likely well established in the side as a batter alone let alone a batting all-rounder and he’s got a great chance to lead his side in a T20 WC next year for experience.

Before that Markram needs to cement his place in the side, I am Klassen fan (na Shankar Ganesh Raisgan) - "a dialogue from tamil movie"

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

Ok moving on from the losers to actual winners India and Australia. What is the feeling guys? I mean I have confidence this team can do it just like how I felt the 2011 side could do it but there is always the unknown factor of what Australia is showing up.

Just like 2011, we dint know what Sri Lanka would show up and they had solid XI that match from Dilsha to Mahela to Sanga to Murali to Malinga. Also I remember they called in Vaas for that match as one of their player got injured and Vaas replaced him. I was so scared that Vaas would directly come into the XI and destroy the batting lineup.

Mumbai pitch was amazing that final and 275 was a steep total in a final.

I hope and pray for the sanity of the billion watching this game that India finally cross the hurdle.

 

[CerealKiller]

When was the last time Australia lost a final?

 

[harishankar]

When was the last time Australia lost a final?

On Sunday that will be an updated stat.

 

[WubbaLubbaDubDub]

When was the last time Australia lost a final?

Never right? Everyone will be crucial and we just need ONE LAST OOMP from the ICT.