5th Test: England vs Australia at the Brit Oval

[King Pietersen]

He can, and has:

Ramprakash: 2350 runs at 27.32 with 2 hundreds
Bell: 3068 runs at 39.84 with 8 hundreds
Bopara: 503 runs at 33.46 with 3 hundreds

Before people bring up Ramprakash's record against Australia. His overall record is boosted by 2 innings. A 72 in a game in Australia, and the hundred. Bell scored 4 half centuries against Australia, in Australia in 06/07 + 2 in 05 and 1 in this series. Far more consistent than Ramps. Ramprakash's hundred followed an Australian 1st innings score of 641 as well, where 6 of Australia's top 7 made half centuries, 3 of them converted into centuries. When it came down to the crunch, with England following on, Ramprakash, along with the entire England line-up bottled it, Ramprakash making 19 as England were bowled out for 184 to lose the Test, at The Oval. Usman Afzaal made a half century in that game as well, call him back in as well? He knows the Oval well......

I don't think he's the right man for the job. I'd much rather see Trott and Key in the side, and with Bell's hundred for Warwickshire I'd put him above Ramprakash as well.

 

[PaulNixon1]

Last time i checked Cooks unbeaten on 61 off 68 so he should keep his place in the whether opening or at no 3.

 

[Sureshot]

Rash hits a tonne and takes a 5-for as Yorkshire win their first championship game since 2007 (iirc). Against a good Hants side, too. Rash is a genuine all-rounder. Whether he's a contender or not is another matter.

 

[King Pietersen]

Ravi's in. Cook dismissed for 66 from 79 balls. Ravi's currently 5 from 16 balls.

 

[Cricketman]

He can, and has:

Ramprakash: 2350 runs at 27.32 with 2 hundreds
Bell: 3068 runs at 39.84 with 8 hundreds
Bopara: 503 runs at 33.46 with 3 hundreds

Before people bring up Ramprakash's record against Australia. His overall record is boosted by 2 innings. A 72 in a game in Australia, and the hundred. Bell scored 4 half centuries against Australia, in Australia in 06/07 + 2 in 05 and 1 in this series. Far more consistent than Ramps. Ramprakash's hundred followed an Australian 1st innings score of 641 as well, where 6 of Australia's top 7 made half centuries, 3 of them converted into centuries. When it came down to the crunch, with England following on, Ramprakash, along with the entire England line-up bottled it, Ramprakash making 19 as England were bowled out for 184 to lose the Test, at The Oval. Usman Afzaal made a half century in that game as well, call him back in as well? He knows the Oval well......

I don't think he's the right man for the job. I'd much rather see Trott and Key in the side, and with Bell's hundred for Warwickshire I'd put him above Ramprakash as well.

Sometimes you are blinded by stats. He is averaging over 100 in the county setup. Forget his test record, that was 7 years ago. He is a completely different player, and is plundering county attacks. Bell and Bopara have sucked major donkey-D in the chances they've been given.

England, for once, need to be bold and make the big decision. Pick the guy in form, the guy averaging over 100. And no, he cannot possibly do worse than 16 runs in 17 overs from the entire middle order. :sarcasm

 

[Ollie_H]

Dan sometimes you talk like a man from Mount Olympus, and other times you talk like a hobo drinking special brew on a street in Liverpool and at the moment it's the latter!

holdenator added 6 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

also, while we're here, Key made 90 for Kent today. BUT I suppose he now shouldn't be anywhere near the team because he bottled it in not getting to 100!

 

[King Pietersen]

You know for a fact he's changed as a player do you? What about mentally? Is he any stronger? He seemed to bottle it quite badly when he was 1 century away from his 100th FC ton.

He's averaging over 100, in Division 2, at The Oval, one of the flattest grounds in the country. Jonathan Trott's averaging 89.20 in the 1st Division with his home ground at Edgbaston, with Bell averaging 64.50. Not to take anything away from Ramprakash's stats, as he's batting exceptionally well, and has done for a while, but as far as I'm concerned, if they were going to bring him in, they should have brought him in in 2006, and given him a chance to prove himself over a long period of time. If he comes in for 1 match and 1 match only, before being dumped again, then it does no good for England and it'll do no good for Ramprakash. I'd much rather see Jonathan Trott come in personally.

If the selectors do go for him, and he comes in and makes a hundred, and we win the game, I'll hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. But I'm just making the point that I wouldn't select him, as I don't believe he's developed a great deal as a player since 2001/2002 whenever it was when he made his last Test appearance.

Note: Ravi Bopara 48* in the Essex game.

 

[Ollie_H]

You know for a fact he's changed as a player do you? What about mentally? Is he any stronger? He seemed to bottle it quite badly when he was 1 century away from his 100th FC ton.

He's averaging over 100, in Division 2, at The Oval, one of the flattest grounds in the country. Jonathan Trott's averaging 89.20 in the 1st Division with his home ground at Edgbaston, with Bell averaging 64.50. Not to take anything away from Ramprakash's stats, as he's batting exceptionally well, and has done for a while, but as far as I'm concerned, if they were going to bring him in, they should have brought him in in 2006, and given him a chance to prove himself over a long period of time. If he comes in for 1 match and 1 match only, before being dumped again, then it does no good for England and it'll do no good for Ramprakash. I'd much rather see Jonathan Trott come in personally.

"I just think that mentally, in terms of approaching a Test match, I'm probably in the best shape I've ever been," Ramprakash told the Surrey website. "I'd be thrilled like any player selected to play for England in what is now a fantastic occasion. It's been a fascinating series, and now at the Brit Oval it's going to be a showpiece occasion. That's why you play the game. For any player that is selected, it's the sort of occasion that they will savour and cherish for the rest of their careers.

He said it himself in an interview? I'm not sure what more you want? me to go and ask him personally?

but it could win us the Ashes? He could plunder a hundred like he has been doing left right and centre, or you could bring in someone who has never played a test match before and continue with Bopara who has done bugger all this series and Bell who still continues to struggle no matter what form he is in.

I think you seem to miss the fact that Ramps has been scoring runs in division 1 and 2, a point I keep mentioning, but you seem to do a bit of a 'zMario' is that he was the leading english run scorer in division 1 last year and his team didn't even win a game.

You may have also missed this,

You should be praising the man that he even got to 100 hundreds, something Bell or Bopara will probably never do! I'm sure if you were on 99 hundreds and had to get to your hundred you'd be f****** bricking yourself! People do it enough when they get close to hundred anyway never mind when your about to become on a list of only like 25 English players to have ever scored 100 hundreds.

You should be praising the man for getting to 100 hundred's not slagging him off because he didn't get there quick enough.

 

[King Pietersen]

Of course he's going to say that, he wants to play Test cricket again. He's not going to come out and say how he's still a bottler and struggles mentally is he? Murray Goodwin made some comments a little while ago regarding Ramprakash, saying how he gave him abit of sledging in a County game, and Ramprakash threw his wicket away a little while later. Ramprakash averaged 77 in 1995, 49 in 96 and 55 in 97, so when he was really in contention for England he was still hitting big runs, maybe not on the same level as he is now, but pitches have been getting steadily flatter into the 2000's. So it's not like he was an average cricketer when he was playing for England and has just peaked now, he's always been making FC runs, but not had the mental toughness to do it consistently at the highest level.

As for praising the Hundred 100's, I was delighted for him when he finally achieved it, I like the guy alot, but the time he took to get that 100th one just showed that even now, when he's under pressure, he struggles. It's for that reason I don't want him in the side, I like Mark Ramprakash a hell of alot, just don't think he's the right man to help England win a vital Test under immense pressure.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Sometimes you are blinded by stats. He is averaging over 100 in the county setup. Forget his test record, that was 7 years ago. He is a completely different player, and is plundering county attacks. Bell and Bopara have sucked major donkey-D in the chances they've been given.

England, for once, need to be bold and make the big decision. Pick the guy in form, the guy averaging over 100. And no, he cannot possibly do worse than 16 runs in 17 overs from the entire middle order. :sarcasm

Exactly! Pick the guy in form; show some guts, England! Or should that just be common sense?

 

[Ollie_H]

Of course he's going to say that, he wants to play Test cricket again. He's not going to come out and say how he's still a bottler and struggles mentally is he? Murray Goodwin made some comments a little while ago regarding Ramprakash, saying how he gave him abit of sledging in a County game, and Ramprakash threw his wicket away a little while later. Ramprakash averaged 77 in 1995, 49 in 96 and 55 in 97, so when he was really in contention for England he was still hitting big runs, maybe not on the same level as he is now, but pitches have been getting steadily flatter into the 2000's. So it's not like he was an average cricketer when he was playing for England and has just peaked now, he's always been making FC runs, but not had the mental toughness to do it consistently at the highest level.

As for praising the Hundred 100's, I was delighted for him when he finally achieved it, I like the guy alot, but the time he took to get that 100th one just showed that even now, when he's under pressure, he struggles. It's for that reason I don't want him in the side, I like Mark Ramprakash a hell of alot, just don't think he's the right man to help England win a vital Test under immense pressure.

Suppose thats where we differ, but if you love to pick guys on form then lets pick Ramps. Ravi was picked while he was in Division 2 and Ramps has a better average then he did when he was picked from div. 2 so you can't really use that.


In all honest he probably isn't gonna get picked but it would be a bold move if they did. Why are selectors such knobs?

 

[King Pietersen]

But that's because selectors are picking on more than just stats. Cricketman said I'm blinded by the stats, but I think it's the opposite. I'm the one looking beyond the stats and looking at the man himself, and the reasoning behind me not including him. If we were going by stats and stats alone, then of course Ramprakash would be in the side. But I'm not convinced he's advanced as a player mentally since his last struggles at Test level. That's my reasoning for not picking him. Also why I wouldn't want Bell in the XI. I'd much rather see Rob Key in the side.

Ravi was picked on potential, his talent and his mental toughness. It takes tremendous mental toughness to come back from an incredibly difficult first away tour to Sri Lanka where he failed miserably, score a hundred with Jet Lag in a tour game in the Windies, follow that with a Test hundred after being hit in the head, and then he followed that with 2 more hundreds against the Windies, one of which came when everyone else was falling around him at Lords. Sure he's been awful in this series, but I'm convinced he'll be back and better. Even Warne was praising his talent, saying how he's one of the most talented batsmen in the country. That's why he was picked, not on averages.

Also, talking of Ravi. Led Essex to victory with an unbeaten 56. So all the under-pressure players have performed in their County fixtures. Getting difficult for the selectors now!

 

[Ollie_H]

I'm the one looking beyond the stats and looking at the man himself, and the reasoning behind me not including him. If we were going by stats and stats alone, then of course Ramprakash would be in the side. But I'm not convinced he's advanced as a player mentally since his last struggles at Test level.

Yet you still want Bell? :sarcasm

Also Warne hates Bopara and doesn't rate him at all! Or have I been reading comments from a different Warne? Also Key just bottled it on 90 so you probably won't want him.

 

[King Pietersen]

I don't want Bell in the side. I'd prefer to have Bell in the side ahead of Ramprakash, but I wouldn't have Bell in my XI for this Test. Thought I'd made that pretty clear in the 750odd England XI's I'd posted in this thread.

Warne doesn't rate Bopara as a Test #3, but did say that Ravi's one of the most talented batsmen in England, and thinks he should be batting lower down the order.

 

[Work Horse]

Playing on one of the flattest pitches in the country surely some thought needs to be put into the bowling attack I cant see why we are blanking Sidebottom although granted he ended up (in his last first class game) with 4-130 or so he managed to get Trott LBW and was the best bowler in a good Notts side,

Broad didnt play in that game but I can imagiane him bowling down some lovely half trackers and venting the pressure on Clarke and Woakes just as well as he had done with North, M Clarke etc when I see that hes the Leading wicket taker for england it makes me rage, his pies are just enough to tempt the tail into false strokes.