Andy Flower or Adam Gilchrist

surendar

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Just because he didn't play a test in Australia, that doesn't imply - He can't be talented. :sarcasm This reminds me another talented left hander from Zim - Neil Johnson. Yes Unbeaten centurion Vs Aus in 1999 WC.
 

TumTum

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Just because he didn't play a test in Australia, that doesn't imply - He can't be talented. :sarcasm This reminds me another talented left hander from Zim - Neil Johnson. Yes Unbeaten centurion Vs Aus in 1999 WC.

Well no doubt he was talented but you can't make up stats that don't exist. Jack Hobbs could have been the 2nd best Test batsmen of all time, but isn't.
 

sifter132

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Yeah but you also can't penalise him for something that doesn't exist either. Playing in Australia is something outside his control. Don Bradman never played in Bangladesh - it could have been his bogey country you never know :laugh

For batting: I'd take Flower in Tests, Gilly in ODIs. Gilly occasionally cashed in on tired bowlers coming in at 5/400 in Test cricket so that dilutes his record slightly in my eyes. Andy Flower wished Zimbabwe could even get to 400...

For keeping: Probably Gilly, but I'll confess to not having seen a lot of Flower's glovework. Someone with knowledge of that subject would be appreciated.
 
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TumTum

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Yeah but you also can't penalise him for something that doesn't exist either. Playing in Australia is something outside his control. Don Bradman never played in Bangladesh - it could have been his bogey country you never know :laugh

Why couldn't I?

Playing against Bangladesh and India all your career shouldn't hold too much value. Unless he averaged like 60 or 70, then it could be debatable.
 

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Playing in Australia shouldn't matter. Especially when comparing against an Aussie. Gilly's bound to have more success in Australia, no matter how many times Andy Flower played there, because it's his home conditions.

Flower's stats breakdown as such:


Code:
                  Span  	Mat  	Runs  	HS  	Bat Av  100
v Australia 	1999-1999 	1 	28 	28 	14.00 	 0 	
v Bangladesh 	2001-2001 	4 	238 	114* 	79.33 	 1 	
v England 	1996-2000 	4 	200 	112 	33.33 	 1 	
v India 	1992-2002 	9 	1138 	232* 	94.83 	 3 	
v New Zealand 	1992-2000 	11 	721 	83 	40.05 	 0 	
v Pakistan 	1993-2002 	14 	931 	156 	44.33 	 2 	
v South Africa 	1995-2001 	5 	566 	199* 	70.75 	 2 	
v Sri Lanka 	1994-2002 	13 	778 	129 	38.90 	 2 	
v West Indies 	2000-2000 	2 	194 	113* 	64.66 	 1

Exceptional records against South Africa and India, and yes, he did bully Zimbabwe a bit. Only one match against Australia and 2 against the Windies, and disappointing records elsewhere.
 

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From 112 innings Andy was not out 19 times.
From 137 innings Gilly was not out 20 times.

If you even out those not outs, i think you'll find Gilly has a higher Test average.
 

sami ullah khan

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Gilchritst is the greatest wicketkeeper batsman to have played in history of Test/ODI cricket. :hpraise:hpraise:hpraise:hpraise
 

shravi

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From 112 innings Andy was not out 19 times.
From 137 innings Gilly was not out 20 times.

If you even out those not outs, i think you'll find Gilly has a higher Test average.

Why the hell would you take out the not outs. It's quite a feat to be able to be the last man standing in a test match innings (batting in the top 7).
 

Owzat

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I've always ranked Flower higher. Class batsman, top 4 and carried the side compared to Gilly who played at 7 in a powerful batting lineup. Both have played a lot of great knocks, but Gilly was more likely to flail about or bully a tired bowling attack while Flower had the pressure of always needing to get a score.

Flower also kept for long periods of time as sides racked up big scores against his bowlers, and had to captain a fairly weak team to boot.

While I agree overall, I think the latter point about keeping for long periods fails bigtime since the aussies being a top side would not bat twice every time but bowl twice most times, whereas the zimmers would bat twice and not as often bowl twice so while the zimmers might concede say 600/4d, they would probably not bowl again................................

It is harder to compare the two than you might think. Keeping girly had top bowlers who were more accurate and gave more chances to catch, Flower might only keep once and have a much harder time. Batting wise Flower had the big disadvantage of little batting to support him whereas girly would normally come in with runs on the board and could play freely. That's not to say girly never came in when the aussies were in trouble, but trouble for the aussies was more likely to be 250/5 whereas for the zimmers you're talking 250 all out so Flower would come in much earlier and/or be in much deeper doo-doo. If I recall the match where he spent almost the whole match on the field he came in at something like 31/3 and 73/3 having kept while the opposition made 600+, I doubt girly ever faced that severe a test even if he might have passed.

But you can't tell how girly would have fared had he come in under the same conditions as Flower faced, or if Flower would have scored more runs etc had he batted in an aussie side.

Whether people think girly is better or Flower, can they not just dismiss the comparison because they think whichever is the dogs ballacks.
 

Ahmad Shah

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i think it doesn't make any sense to compare anybody with gilly although flower has his own place but when it comes to gilly no one match hi:banana2s class he's just awesome
 

Harishan

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Comparing a keeper who is today known as an ambassador of the game and won the love of many fans with his destructiveness with the bat in hand to a keeper who just about held together Zimbabwe's batting lineup and probably didn't get the credit he deserved for his class with the bat, is kinda tough. Almost like comparing Shane Warne and Glenn McGrath IMO.

Obviously most people would choose Gilchrist over Flower, as he did mesmorise the cricketing world with his destructiveness and is a true ambassador of the game but Andy Flower's class certainly should not be left in the rough.
 

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There both fantastic players the thing is that I would rate Gilly higher because he was also a better wicketkeeper...maybe not batsmen but he definitely played the best that his position was defined to do which is wicketkeeping.
 

War

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Yeah but you also can't penalise him for something that doesn't exist either. Playing in Australia is something outside his control. Don Bradman never played in Bangladesh - it could have been his bogey country you never know :laugh

For batting: I'd take Flower in Tests, Gilly in ODIs. Gilly occasionally cashed in on tired bowlers coming in at 5/400 in Test cricket so that dilutes his record slightly in my eyes. Andy Flower wished Zimbabwe could even get to 400...

For keeping: Probably Gilly, but I'll confess to not having seen a lot of Flower's glovework. Someone with knowledge of that subject would be appreciated.

I saw Flower keep in test during Zimbabwe's tours to England & Windies in 2000 respectively. His keeping in those series to me was on par with Matt Prior (the improved Prior mind you :laugh) of today.
 

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