Associate and Affiliate Thread

Scotland have defeated Bangladesh in The Hague, Richie Berrington slammed a hundred and Davey and Haq claimed three wickets each. Needless to say, it's been coming, they were about two balls away from losing 2-1 to Ireland as well.

Anyway, this is definitely Scotland's moment in the sun - WELL PLAYED!
 
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yeah, they cancelled the ODI against england ahead of the almost certain wash out. I think the grange has been flooding all summer.

I'd rather they played a few more t20s in scotland actually, I've seen us play most of our ODIs in recent years and I really just go for the spectacle of seeing the other teams world class players (though I went to see us play india A just so I could say I'd seen pujara and rahane before they became massive stars and that ended up being one of the best games I've seen live or on TV).

in t20s the result is slightly less assured, plus the last 20 or so overs of our chases are just us blocking the ball trying to bat the innings out which gets a bit dull.
 
yeah, they cancelled the ODI against england ahead of the almost certain wash out. I think the grange has been flooding all summer.

I'd rather they played a few more t20s in scotland actually, I've seen us play most of our ODIs in recent years and I really just go for the spectacle of seeing the other teams world class players (though I went to see us play india A just so I could say I'd seen pujara and rahane before they became massive stars and that ended up being one of the best games I've seen live or on TV).

in t20s the result is slightly less assured, plus the last 20 or so overs of our chases are just us blocking the ball trying to bat the innings out which gets a bit dull.

I've been thinking for ages that the best way to get the Associates to raise their game is by playing Full Members.

To get this to happen, the three European Associates could join England and the two tourists for a Six Nations T20 tournament. For example, next year it would have England, Ireland, Scotland, Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand.

Bam. Three T20s against full member (and one against Ireland which is basically the same thing).
 
personally I think the jump between associates and full members is too great for it to be much use. this is why bangladesh have spent years rolling around in the bottom, they've never built any momentum.

I think getting them in the A team circuit would be a good first step, especially for ireland. pyschology could come in handy too when some of these A team players are full internationals and ireland can take the field knowing that they've beaten them before.

like I said, that india A v Scotland match was serious stuff, I'm sure beating india A by a single wicket with 3 balls left did way more for them than the trouncing I saw sri lanka hand out to them as malinga just ripped threw us in the first 10 overs.
 
personally I think the jump between associates and full members is too great for it to be much use. this is why bangladesh have spent years rolling around in the bottom, they've never built any momentum.

I think getting them in the A team circuit would be a good first step, especially for ireland. pyschology could come in handy too when some of these A team players are full internationals and ireland can take the field knowing that they've beaten them before.

like I said, that india A v Scotland match was serious stuff, I'm sure beating india A by a single wicket with 3 balls left did way more for them than the trouncing I saw sri lanka hand out to them as malinga just ripped threw us in the first 10 overs.

Exactly, and that's the perfect way to step up in the longer formats, but in Twenty20, I think they can compete.

The same as tagging on ODIs against top associates at the start of tours is a useful idea, like Australia have done with Ireland and are about to do with Afghanistan.
 
sorry, didn't know you meant specifically t20s, yes I agree.

as well as the closer results there is the crowd draw, much as I hate to admit, the idea of a 3 hour twenty20 is far more tempting than a full ODI for me. it's a mismatch, and it gets a bit boring by the end. crowd interest is really vital to the associates. that's irelands biggest concern imo, we've already seen they can produce the players (if they don't get their test status I wouldn't bet against dockrell being the next england spinner) but without a hub of fans that will entice sponsors they'll struggle to get off the ground.

afghanistan are a bit of a godsend for ireland, they look like they'll provide a credible rivalry for ireland until the make the step up. (and with investment and a more settled country they could well be a full nation themselves in 10-15 years.)
 
^
Quite.

Also, I agree with your other idea - if the top Associates all have series against a different 'A' team every year, then that can only raise their game.
 
Inviting the Associates into the domestic setup of a country could also workd wonders. For e.g- Imagine an Irish XI playing maybe alongside the Indian or Sri Lankan domestic teams. Breed them into the 4 day games, I feel it will boost up their morale too.
 
Inviting the Associates into the domestic setup of a country could also workd wonders. For e.g- Imagine an Irish XI playing maybe alongside the Indian or Sri Lankan domestic teams. Breed them into the 4 day games, I feel it will boost up their morale too.

Netherlands and Scotland (ENG), Afghanistan (PAK), Namibia (SA), Canada (WI), all do, and Kenya (ZIM) and Ireland (ENG) used too as well, but Ireland's players all play for counties and Kenya have their own competitions.
 
Well I can't fault you on saying that Ireland need Test status - it would be great for them. Trouble is that it would suck for everyone else. More games to fit into an already packed schedule, more money being funnelled away from established countries that are struggling for cash eg. New Zealand, Sri Lanka, West Indies, even Zimbabwe.

I'd like to see more 'A' teams play against Ireland, that's how I'd improve their cricket.

The "ease in" theory can easily be replaced with tiers which I won't go into in detail again, but it is the only way I can see a team like Ireland getting Test status.

Otherwise I can see 'The Author' not being at their first Test as it either won't happen, or he'd have to be dug up.

Are Ireland anywhere near being a competitive ODI side let alone a Test side? I'd say not. Ireland may have upset some applecarts in the past two World Cups, most notably reaching the super 8 in 2007, but still aren't competitive enough.

Their overall record in ODIs may look good, but it includes a lot of Holland, Kenya, Scotland, Canada and other non-Test nations. Split their record and you have a much less impressive picture.


overall (05/06-present) : P74 W34 L35 Tie 1 NR 4 (Won 45.95%)
vs Test sides* : P23 W2 L19 NR 2 (Won 8.70%)
vs ZIM/BAN : P12 W3 L8 Tie 1 (Won 25.00%)
vs Non-Test : P39 W29 L8 NR 2 (Won 74.36%)

*excluding ZIM/BAN

Clearly too good for the level they are mostly playing at, not good enough for ODIs against the big boys - 1 in 7 win ratio against Test sides overall, even against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe they lose about 3 in 4.

Even in those two World Cups their record was to cause an upset and then lose heavily.

World Cup 2007 vs Test sides

vs ZIM - tied
vs PAK - won by 3 wkts
vs WIN - lost by 8 wkts
vs ENG - lost by 48 runs
vs SAF - lost by 7 wkts
vs NZE - lost by 129 runs
vs AUS - lost by 9 wkts
vs BAN - won by 74 runs
vs SRI - lost by 8 wkts

Won and tied against the two weakest Test nations, lost heavily to everyone else bar Pakistan who they bear narrowly. England's win by 48 runs is still a fairly large margin for an ODI .

World Cup 2011 vs Test sides

vs BAN - lost by 27 runs
vs ENG - won by 3 wkts
vs IND - lost by 5 wkts
vs WIN - lost by 44 runs
vs SAF - lost by 131 runs

One win over England, England really should have won, and four mixed size defeats. Worst still is the lack of substance displayed by the Ireland top order in those five matches :

first five wickets

110/5 vs BAN (178 all out)
111/5 vs ENG - added 218 for only two further wickets
147/5 vs IND (207 all out)
187/5 vs WIN (231 all out)
92/5 vs SAF (141 all out)

Bar the West Indies match Ireland were always in trouble when five down. It may not look so bad against England, and they did win, but England really should have gone in for the kill

IRE 111/5 after first 24.2 overs (4.56 rpo)
IRE 218/2 off the last 24.5 overs (8.78 rpo)

England conceded 218 runs after the 5th wicket fell, no other Test side conceded more than 68 runs (Bangladesh) before bowling Ireland out. Good effort blah blah blah from O'Brien et al, but England should have polished the lower order off and tail.

Interesting that Ireland's two most significant scalps should be at consecutive World Cups and by three wicket margins.
 
^Yep, I don't think Ireland are strong enough - it's a lovely romantic notion to support the underdogs, but ultimately it's just not good for cricket. Unfortunately, Bangladesh's premature promotion set a pretty awful precedent. One Bangladesh win over Pakistan in the 99 World Cup and suddenly they were a Test nation. So now when a team upsets a Test playing nation - one win should get them into Tests too? It's not right.
 

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