DBC 14 batting, my favourite stuff
- Thread starter T.J.Hooker
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T.J.Hooker
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I'm planning on looking at a few dismissal clips. It might sound counter intuitive to talk about dismissals as a favourite part of the game, but they're a vital part of the context that makes the other favourite bits seem meaningful, and a vital part of the illusion that a real cricket game is happening and the feeling that the game's concepts of success and failure are fair and coherent.
For me, the important factors in a "good" dismissal are :
i) I must know what my mistake was.
ii) I must feel getting out is a fair result for that mistake.
iii) I must feel that I can avoid repeating the mistake in future, either through strategy or skill.
iv) It must feel / look like a plausible cricket dismissal.
i, ii and iii are especially important in terms of whether the dismissal leaves me feeling like I want another go or not. Batting very quickly becomes frustrating if the dismissals feel unfair, not reasonably avoidable or if I'm unsure what I did wrong.
The first example is a run out. In earlier builds the infield throws were a bit too sharp. It felt like they just couldn't miss. More recently I've found them a little bit too laid back about returning the ball and cheeky singles a bit too easy to take. Not this time.
Run out :
There are a few reasons why this run out left me with a smile on my face.
The first thing is that I made a mistake that I've made in real cricket. I'd just set off automatically because I hit the ball nicely, and when the fielder dived I thought I'd beaten him. I thought the applause was because the ball was going for four.
The error was compounded because I ran normally instead of sprinting, and when I realised he was throwing at the stumps I had that moment you always have when you think "I'm out if he hits". The moment when the stumps go down is so vivid in Pro Cam. It's just so close to what I remember seeing getting run out in real matches.
The fielding seems plausible rather than superhuman. He takes just long enough to set himself before the throw, and he's close enough and at a straight enough angle that you'd fancy a pro should have a chance of hitting. Ok, it's still a great throw and if you're constantly getting thrown out like that it's going to get frustrating, but I'd got away with a enough similar run out chances that I didn't feel cheated on this one.
Knowing that I might have made it if I'd sprinted all the way is another factor. I feel like I had a fair chance and I blew it, and that's exactly the way I want to feel when I get out.
One thing I would consider as a possible improvement is the opportunity to cancel a run later and attempt to sacrifice my partner. Currently you can't cancel if you're more than halfway down (I think?).
Ok, in terms of realism you don't see a lot of guys turn around from past the halfway point in real games, but it would add another little opportunity for the user to exercise some tactical skill, and sacrificing a weaker batsman is a real thing in pro cricket - as is selling your partner out to save your average like Geoff Boycott.
For me, the important factors in a "good" dismissal are :
i) I must know what my mistake was.
ii) I must feel getting out is a fair result for that mistake.
iii) I must feel that I can avoid repeating the mistake in future, either through strategy or skill.
iv) It must feel / look like a plausible cricket dismissal.
i, ii and iii are especially important in terms of whether the dismissal leaves me feeling like I want another go or not. Batting very quickly becomes frustrating if the dismissals feel unfair, not reasonably avoidable or if I'm unsure what I did wrong.
The first example is a run out. In earlier builds the infield throws were a bit too sharp. It felt like they just couldn't miss. More recently I've found them a little bit too laid back about returning the ball and cheeky singles a bit too easy to take. Not this time.
Run out :
There are a few reasons why this run out left me with a smile on my face.
The first thing is that I made a mistake that I've made in real cricket. I'd just set off automatically because I hit the ball nicely, and when the fielder dived I thought I'd beaten him. I thought the applause was because the ball was going for four.
The error was compounded because I ran normally instead of sprinting, and when I realised he was throwing at the stumps I had that moment you always have when you think "I'm out if he hits". The moment when the stumps go down is so vivid in Pro Cam. It's just so close to what I remember seeing getting run out in real matches.
The fielding seems plausible rather than superhuman. He takes just long enough to set himself before the throw, and he's close enough and at a straight enough angle that you'd fancy a pro should have a chance of hitting. Ok, it's still a great throw and if you're constantly getting thrown out like that it's going to get frustrating, but I'd got away with a enough similar run out chances that I didn't feel cheated on this one.
Knowing that I might have made it if I'd sprinted all the way is another factor. I feel like I had a fair chance and I blew it, and that's exactly the way I want to feel when I get out.
One thing I would consider as a possible improvement is the opportunity to cancel a run later and attempt to sacrifice my partner. Currently you can't cancel if you're more than halfway down (I think?).
Ok, in terms of realism you don't see a lot of guys turn around from past the halfway point in real games, but it would add another little opportunity for the user to exercise some tactical skill, and sacrificing a weaker batsman is a real thing in pro cricket - as is selling your partner out to save your average like Geoff Boycott.
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yup i can see it being more fun in co-op
and careeryes it sort of went form one extreme to other, thoguh one advantage is not i have been able to sneak a few leg byes especially in t20s in final overs when you need the strike
the things that stand out for me are
1. when the in circle fielder lobs the ball instead of throwing when the batsman is still only halfway down the pitch
2. often throws at the end were the batsman is safe while the other is quite a bit away again inner circle would understand if its from outfield
3.The keeper moves like a grenade has been thrown at him instead of a leather ball , he will move as if he is going to be carried away by the throw [ like he is trying to stop a train rather than gathering a ball ] and then get back to position by which time the batsman is safe often would happen with batsman far away from the line and would have been sure outs in real cric
4.when the fielders play monkey while passing the ball!
5. would like more animations to whip the bails as well as being quick! Would also add a mention to stumping the keeper rarely stumps both human as well as AI players even when you have danced down the pitch and missed by a mile!
Have certainly had runouts like this when you have probably wasted a few balls and finally get one good shot think its through or that the fielder will take his time only to be caught short!
In moments like these the game really shines, DBC has really the captured the perfect moments of the sport well, its only the imperfect moments the game has had trouble with replicating perfectly!
Gamer Pradosh
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Great way to explain...Had a good laugh...T.J.Hooker
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Yeah, whether the fielder lobs or throws, and whether the throw is higher and loopier or flatter makes a huge difference, and sometimes the fielder's intent doesn't fit the situation. Sometimes the medium distance returns take a bit too long in the air and you can take one for the throw. Likewise outfielders coming in to pick up sometimes don't attack the ball on the first run so you can steal a second when you shouldn't be able to.
I can understand why it's tricky to fine tune this, though. Recognising when there's a real chance of a run out is a very context sensitive thing, and with one person controlling both runners, and the runners always responding with no hesitation, you're always going to have a bit more of a chance of a cheeky single than you would trying to call through a real person in the same situation.
The area that always impresses me is out squareish on the legside. The returns from there tend to be flat and quick, and it just feels like a pro game rather than the club cricket sort of feel I get out of a lot of other positions.
I haven't got a clip with the actual fielding on camera but this will do for now. You can hear the ball hit the keeper's gloves just after the run is completed, absolutely no question of taking a second.
Pro return from square leg :
I've got a couple of examples of one of the situations where I always feel I'm making a very dodgy run too easily. I'm taking the second run with the ball almost in his hand in an infield position, which I'd just never attempt in a real game. I feel there ought to be danger at the non striker's end, but my partner always seems to turn like Speedy Gonzales - he's home before I'm even halfway down - and the fielder throws to the keeper instead, and never quite quickly enough to beat me.
That's not to say that I want to see a deadeye run out every time in this sort of situation. I just want it to be dangerous enough (mainly for my partner) to make it a definite bad call.
Stealing a second run to the infield :
Also, quick thought : I'd love to hear a the odd bit of ambient chat from my partner on this sort of issue, perhaps even with a very occasional little (skippable) mid-pitch conference if he's a senior player.
"Watch the calls, mate. You nearly ran me out!"
"Mate there was never a run there."
"Nice work, good call!" - for a sharp, nicely judged single.
"Oh for god's sake! You idiot!" - as he fires a stare at me and walks off.
It would have to be rare/varied enough to avoid too much repetition, but I wonder if it might work as an extra little bit of flavour.
Yeah, the missed stumpings totally take the risk out of going down the track and I'd say it's the most urgently needed fix for the keeper. Keepers have got to be able to make stumpings reliably if the batsman is miles out of his crease.
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Gamer Pradosh
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Yeah mid-pitch conversation would be really good in making the game feel more realistic and keeping the match tempo up....This along with crowd's involvement it would create that intense feel we need when we play...The combination of all would create that match environment..
D
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@T.J.Hooker
If you’re playing the game for fun well fair enough you are out.
If you are wanting to be a bit more technical then I have to be honest here TJ. The run out was poor batting, poor judgement and poor running.
When looking around the field there should be a mental picture of where fielders are placed. You seemed to hit straight to a fielder then you set off running blind if it wasn’t a run out it would have been a very lucky cheeky single.
Return from square leg
The delivery looked like an attempted out swinger and you didn’t go naturally with the path of the ball you were lucky not to edge it and it pulled you into playing an unnatural stroke.
Stealing a second run first video was more a shot to play off the pads then attempting to drive it. The height of the delivery was shorter though it looked like the bat was pushing the ball down which removed any real power from the stroke and would of looked a very unconvincing stroke in saying that you did get two runs.
I don’t know why you want your senior batting partner to call you an idiot? And then storm off what about the way ball is behaving or something he has noticed….
If you’re playing the game for fun well fair enough you are out.
If you are wanting to be a bit more technical then I have to be honest here TJ. The run out was poor batting, poor judgement and poor running.
When looking around the field there should be a mental picture of where fielders are placed. You seemed to hit straight to a fielder then you set off running blind if it wasn’t a run out it would have been a very lucky cheeky single.
Return from square leg
The delivery looked like an attempted out swinger and you didn’t go naturally with the path of the ball you were lucky not to edge it and it pulled you into playing an unnatural stroke.
Stealing a second run first video was more a shot to play off the pads then attempting to drive it. The height of the delivery was shorter though it looked like the bat was pushing the ball down which removed any real power from the stroke and would of looked a very unconvincing stroke in saying that you did get two runs.
I don’t know why you want your senior batting partner to call you an idiot? And then storm off what about the way ball is behaving or something he has noticed….
T.J.Hooker
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um, are you maybe just a little bit mental?
D
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Mental well that’s a new one but there again I am not the one who’s having imaginary conversations with a computerised batsman or wanting him to sadistically verbally bash me.
T.J.Hooker
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Yeah maybe come back when you've got more of a handle on what video games are, how they function and why people play them. Would also be a big help if you could correctly infer meaning from passages of text.
D
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Well stop been so easily offended.
I am going on the videos you uploaded which have nothing to do with the general idea of what a video game is or what its function is.
Its errors in your batting not the gameplay which is resulting in stupid dismissals.
"i) I must know what my mistake was.
ii) I must feel getting out is a fair result for that mistake.
iii) I must feel that I can avoid repeating the mistake in future, either through strategy or skill.
iv) It must feel / look like a plausible cricket dismissal".
I am going on the videos you uploaded which have nothing to do with the general idea of what a video game is or what its function is.
Its errors in your batting not the gameplay which is resulting in stupid dismissals.
"i) I must know what my mistake was.
ii) I must feel getting out is a fair result for that mistake.
iii) I must feel that I can avoid repeating the mistake in future, either through strategy or skill.
iv) It must feel / look like a plausible cricket dismissal".
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T.J.Hooker
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Dude, seriously. You are making absolutely retarded points here and I'm not going to waste my time addressing them.
D
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No wonder the other batsman called you an idiot.
D
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Trust me I wasn’t trying to derail the thread or ruin it for you guys in anyway. I was just trying to offer some advice and it backfired.
I was under the impression we could of talked about technique or the conversation would of ended up there but I wasn’t expecting that kind of reaction. Maybe it was an error on my side where it looked like I was trying to talk down to him or it looked like I was just been a general ass but TJ it was never meant that way.
I was under the impression we could of talked about technique or the conversation would of ended up there but I wasn’t expecting that kind of reaction. Maybe it was an error on my side where it looked like I was trying to talk down to him or it looked like I was just been a general ass but TJ it was never meant that way.
