Diagnosing a hardware fault

[MattW]

I've been having quite a major hardware problem recently, but I'm unsure how far I can track it back.

Before I go on, my system specs:
AMD Sempron64 2600+ (1.6GHz) Socket 754
ASUS K8V-MX Motherboard (VIA K8M800, VIA VT8237R chipset)
512MB Stick of PC3200 DDR400 ram
256MB Stick of PC3200 DDR400 ram
Gainward Nvidia 256MB 7600GT AGP Graphics (also tried FX5200 128MB AGP)
450W ATX PSU
DVD-RW Drive (Pioneer)
DVD-ROM Drive (LG)
WD 80GB IDE HD
Seagate 320GB SATA HD
Dell Data Fax Modem
DNTV Live! Pro (DVB-T card)

I built it myself at the start of 2006 (with the graphics card the newest addition), and the problems have only started recently.

Basically the current issue is my system is locking up when doing 3D accelerated graphics, and occasionally it will give me an appropriate BSOD giving me an error:
*** STOP: 0x000000EA (0x82A955C0,0x82DBBB68,0xF7993CB4,0x00000001)

A search reveals a few relevant KB articles, telling me it is a THREAD_STUCK_IN_DEVICE_DRIVER error in nv4_disp.dll. Now this would make me assume it was video card related, a search on the issue turns up http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=4432. I followed the majority of steps on this page (there were a few I couldn't do, I'll get to them later), and it seemed to have a partial impact, originally I'd get immediately to a BSOD, but now it hangs for a while and beeps at me.

To try and check if it was a hardware problem I have tried to rule out as many items as possible. I have been able to reproduce this locking up of the system with two different (nVidia) graphics cards, with the use of only one of my sticks of ram at a time, and after a reinstall of Windows and various versions (including the latest version and the ones that came on the disc with my card) if the drivers.

I also used memtest, which turned up no errors.

From here it leaves me with either a dying motherboard, insufficient/dying power supply or a something else.

This seemed to start around the time I played BLIC 2007 for the first time (which was about 3 weeks ago), when I had it drop back to the desktop during the game a few times, and then after solving that through reinstallation, the locking up and BSODs seemed to start. I say seemed to as I can't be sure, there are other times I've had my computer reset on me, but they happened when I left my computer on overnight (with the monitor off) and I woke up to find just my desktop and the thing I'd left it on to do, not done.

Another symptom has been a loud noise that sounds like a dodgy fan with continuous beeping on start up. This occurs randomly, and sometimes powering it down and turning it on again solves it, other times if I leave it for a minute and then turn it on it will work, starting up fine with none of the noise or beeping. The randomness of this symptom makes it hard for me to diagnose.

I'm thinking that the power supply might be an issue, but I don't have another PSU to test with, nor do I have another M/B to try out.

Can anyone give me suggestions on where to go from here? Currently just going and getting a new computer seems the easiest solution, but I won't have the money for that for a few months at least, so finding a temporary solution that doesn't involve replacing half the computer is ideal.

I haven't contacted any of the tech support things for any of the components because I haven't been able to pinpoint the culprit, any way of doing that would be brilliant.

Not that I'd normally say it, in fact I hate the idea, but reps and vCash to anyone who helps me (not as in anyone who posts here, but if a post genuinely helps me getting this sorted).

 

[Abhas]

ok.. not exactly do this for the reps and cash, but just trying to give a few insights..

The problem could well be due to overheating. Make sure the Cabinet is well ventilated. Next step, in the BIOS, check the CPU temperatures, also check the fan speed.

if your RAM is alright, have you tried cleaning the system ? Dust particles can clog up ports and might even prevent proper connections in some cases. Specially clean the RAM, and the video card port.

I have a computer which is behaving in a similar manner to yours, and even i thought the RAM was at fault, but proper cleaning and ventilation has solved the problem for me (since the past 3-4 days, no error - thats when i cleaned it up)

I thought it could be the graphics card to blame (i have a geforce Fx 5600 ultra), but now it seems okay.
I did not get Blue screens, but the computer used to sometimes hang randomly, and sometimes would do a hard reset on its own.

The CPU temperature it was showing me was about 65C, which although is high, but it is acceptable.

Regarding the Booting beeps, even i faced the same problem, with the CPU fan spinning, and stopping, then spinning and stopping again. the cycle used to continue indefinitely, and the computer did not boot up. sometimes, it used to give me a set of beeps, ( short, long, short if i remember correctly ), and i could sense the computer booting up, but there was no display. the HDD's were spinning, and the fan was also on full throttle.

The PSU could be acting iffy, but i don't understand why it occurs randomly.

Hope this helps.

 

[MattW]

ok.. not exactly do this for the reps and cash, but just trying to give a few insights..

Good to see

The problem could well be due to overheating. Make sure the Cabinet is well ventilated. Next step, in the BIOS, check the CPU temperatures, also check the fan speed.

After being on for about 4 hours on a day that I'd guess at around 20°C, the CPU is at 35.5°C, the M/B at 35°C with the CPU fan running at 3409RPM. Those seem fairly normal to me. The case does have quite a few holes for ventilation (and is sitting on top of a desk, so the airflow into it should be fine), but I only have the CPU fan, the graphics card fan and the PSU fan, so perhaps another fan or two could help (there is no shortage of places to fix one on to).

if your RAM is alright, have you tried cleaning the system ? Dust particles can clog up ports and might even prevent proper connections in some cases. Specially clean the RAM, and the video card port.

I gave it a vacuum a week back, but I'm sure I could do a more thorough cleaning.

Regarding the Booting beeps, even i faced the same problem, with the CPU fan spinning, and stopping, then spinning and stopping again. the cycle used to continue indefinitely, and the computer did not boot up. sometimes, it used to give me a set of beeps, ( short, long, short if i remember correctly ), and i could sense the computer booting up, but there was no display. the HDD's were spinning, and the fan was also on full throttle.

The odd thing is the computer seemed to be booting up normally despite the beeping.

The PSU could be acting iffy, but i don't understand why it occurs randomly.

This stumped me as well.

Hope this helps.

It was good to hear from someone who has experienced similar things, so thanks .

I suppose I'm off to give it a clean.

 

[The_gas]

From what i have seen, it just seems to be a problem with the AGP line of Nvidia cards, is this correct? Could be a driver problem that is affecting the masses. You could try playing about with the AGP Speed, for example changing it to x4 etc. Also play about with AGP settings like Aperture in your bios.

You could try updating all drivers for your motherboard as well, its unlikely to make a difference, but you have nothing to lose. Also, update any onboard items such as Realtek Audio etc.

I can take a look at the mini dump if you want. Although, this sounds like a tough one to solve, with so many people having the problem for such a long time according to the link you provided.

If it is a driver issue, then well that the problem with Nvidia, they release 2 or 3 drivers a year where as Ati release them evey month. Fickle as it may seem, thats why i will never purchase a Nvidia card.

Hope you get it sorted, and if i come across anything better ill let you know.

 

[MattW]

From what i have seen, it just seems to be a problem with the AGP line of Nvidia cards, is this correct? Could be a driver problem that is affecting the masses. You could try playing about with the AGP Speed, for example changing it to x4 etc. Also play about with AGP settings like Aperture in your bios.

I'll go have a play around, but the issue with this is that if I can only get it to work by throttling down the speed that much, there is no point having the card in at all, I could just go to the integrated VIA graphics (which I was glad to be rid of). The 5200 was painful enough to use. It seems to be a problem with the combination of a VIA chipset and an nVidia card (if the linked site is any guide). The oddness of the timing of this (it seemed to randomly start) makes me less suspicious of a problem with nVidia AGP cards, especially as everything was fine for a long time, if it had been like this since the very first time I used an nVidia card in this PC I'd be sure that was the issue. With these circumstances I'm not sure. Though obviously my next graphics card purchase will at least involve considering ATi.

You could try updating all drivers for your motherboard as well, its unlikely to make a difference, but you have nothing to lose. Also, update any onboard items such as Realtek Audio etc.

I'm going through this now, though the things I've updated so far haven't had an impact. I've also updated the nVidia drivers to the current Beta. Sound drivers are downloading as I type this.

I can take a look at the mini dump if you want. Although, this sounds like a tough one to solve, with so many people having the problem for such a long time according to the link you provided.

I've attached a file with 3 minidumps, I read that it helps to have more than one.

If it is a driver issue, then well that the problem with Nvidia, they release 2 or 3 drivers a year where as Ati release them evey month. Fickle as it may seem, thats why i will never purchase a Nvidia card.

Not wanting to go too far into it, but I originally went with the FX5200 because of ATi's bad driver support for Linux (I was using it heavily at that stage). Didn't see a reason to switch to ATi when it came time to upgrade (even though Linux support doesn't matter to me now).

Hope you get it sorted, and if i come across anything better ill let you know.

Thanks for your help, much appreciated.

 

[Kshitiz_Indian]

Well, first of all, even though it isnt the problem, I think for once your system is too heavily armored for a VIA chipset.

But, jokes apart, did you try monitoring GPU temperatures? To do that, download rivatuner from here. Install it, then run it, and on the first screen presented, after it finishes building databases, you will see a target adapter and a driver settings sections. In the target adapter, just where your GPU name is written, in the next line, There would be customize and a button next to it. Click the button, and then choose hardware monitoring(the chip with magnifying glass). You can monitor your GPU temperatures there. To check under load, play a game in windowed mode and monitor your temperatures.

Check your temperatures and tally them amongst other people's. Now, do this, in Rivatuner itself, on the same button, click on low-level tweaks. In that, get on the fan settings tab, and set the fan on full, and then play the game again.

And for the fact you say that sometimes fan works too fast and vice-versa, it could be your GPU fan too. GPU's have a thermal sensor and a chip controlling fan speed and if any of it goes down, your fan might malfunction, resulting in overheating of your chip.

Not totally the issue but one way of looking at it. I'll think about other possible causes and get back to you.

 

[MattW]

Well, first of all, even though it isnt the problem, I think for once your system is too heavily armored for a VIA chipset.

I've kinda missed the point of the Sempron chip. In a few months time there will be a new thread from me about what should go in the replacement machine (I know what my budget will be now, but I'll wait until it is nearer the time I'll have the cash before I think about the specs.)

But, jokes apart, did you try monitoring GPU temperatures? To do that, download rivatuner from here. Install it, then run it, and on the first screen presented, after it finishes building databases, you will see a target adapter and a driver settings sections. In the target adapter, just where your GPU name is written, in the next line, There would be customize and a button next to it. Click the button, and then choose hardware monitoring(the chip with magnifying glass). You can monitor your GPU temperatures there. To check under load, play a game in windowed mode and monitor your temperatures.

Check your temperatures and tally them amongst other people's. Now, do this, in Rivatuner itself, on the same button, click on low-level tweaks. In that, get on the fan settings tab, and set the fan on full, and then play the game again.

And for the fact you say that sometimes fan works too fast and vice-versa, it could be your GPU fan too. GPU's have a thermal sensor and a chip controlling fan speed and if any of it goes down, your fan might malfunction, resulting in overheating of your chip.

Not totally the issue but one way of looking at it. I'll think about other possible causes and get back to you.

I'll try this, but as I mentioned earlier I could recreate the problem with my FX5200 as well, so I don't think the graphics card is overheating.

Using the tool that came with the card (the lazily named 'EXPERTool') it is currently running at 47?C, with no 3D stuff running.

 

[The_gas]

Bugcheck Analysis Dump 420081-01

Probably caused by : nv4_disp.dll ( nv4_disp+1eeed )

Well, we knew that already so no help there.

After some research, this problem could have something to do with xp2, at least thats when the problems were first noticed by some. Its odd, i haven't been able to find a global solution to this one.

Make sure you update your MB Bios and DVD/CD Drives Firmware. Then you have pretty much covered everything.

Unlikely, but is there a 3rd Nvidia AGP Graphics card you could try? Just to rule out any possibility.

Also, there shouldn't be that much difference between x4 and x8, thats what i found back in the days of my AGP Radeon 9200, which could be troublesome in Vice City at x8 Agp speed.

Microsoft states, "The driver nv4_disp for the display device \Device\Video0 got stuck in an infinite loop. This usually indicates a problem with the device itself or with the device driver programming the hardware incorrectly. Please check with your hardware device vendor for any driver updates'.

So, according to that, its the Video Card, or the Drivers that are to blame, because you have tried two cards, i would guess its the drivers. Considering this issues has been going on for years, i would look for a different supplier of AGP video cards.

If i was you, i'd just bite the bullet and sell your cards on ebay and pick up an Ati alternative, or make the upgrade to PCI-E x16.

Will let you know if i hear anything else.

 

[Kshitiz_Indian]

Well Matt, did you use driver cleaner before installing the new drivers?

Also, you can try installing Service Pack 2 again, and even SP3 RC2. That should restore any damaged system files.

 

[MattW]

Bugcheck Analysis Dump 420081-01

Probably caused by : nv4_disp.dll ( nv4_disp+1eeed )

Well, we knew that already so no help there.

After some research, this problem could have something to do with xp2, at least thats when the problems were first noticed by some. Its odd, i haven't been able to find a global solution to this one.

Well I've been using SP2 since before I got the machine, currently I'm using SP3 RC2.

Make sure you update your MB Bios and DVD/CD Drives Firmware. Then you have pretty much covered everything.

Got the updated bios already, I'll have a look at updating the DVD drive firmware.

Unlikely, but is there a 3rd Nvidia AGP Graphics card you could try? Just to rule out any possibility.

Nope, I've exhausted my supply of graphics cards. Though there is the onboard stuff.

Also, there shouldn't be that much difference between x4 and x8, thats what i found back in the days of my AGP Radeon 9200, which could be troublesome in Vice City at x8 Agp speed.

I'll give it a shot at x4. I've found a option in that RivaTuner thing that Kshitiz suggested that is called 'motherboard chipset compatability mode', which may help in some way. The heat on that doesn't seem to be a problem, running a fairly intensive program only put the temperature up 4°.

Microsoft states, "The driver nv4_disp for the display device \Device\Video0 got stuck in an infinite loop. This usually indicates a problem with the device itself or with the device driver programming the hardware incorrectly. Please check with your hardware device vendor for any driver updates'.

So, according to that, its the Video Card, or the Drivers that are to blame, because you have tried two cards, i would guess its the drivers. Considering this issues has been going on for years, i would look for a different supplier of AGP video cards.

I won't be buying another nVidia AGP card that's for sure. Though I don't plan on buying any more AGP cards.

If i was you, i'd just bite the bullet and sell your cards on ebay and pick up an Ati alternative, or make the upgrade to PCI-E x16.

Will let you know if i hear anything else.

I don't have any PCI-E slots in this machine so I'm stuck with AGP cards. The next machine I get will definitely be PCI-E, and I'll be asking for suggestions on a suitable graphics card for that a bit later.

Well Matt, did you use driver cleaner before installing the new drivers?

Nope, I'll give that a shot. But the problem did reoccur after a fresh re-install of Windows.

 

[Kshitiz_Indian]

Well, I don't think it could be anything software related, since you've already reinstalled windows with SP2, tried SP3, except the drivers. So its either got to be your drivers or your motherboard.

Can you try this graphics card in some other motherboard if possible using the latest drivers?

 

[MattW]

Can you try this graphics card in some other motherboard if possible using the latest drivers?

Not right now, but someone I know has one I might be able to borrow.

 

[The_gas]

The next machine I get will definitely be PCI-E, and I'll be asking for suggestions on a suitable graphics card for that a bit later.

Well, I'm sure you won't regret moving away, I have had less issues since I made the switch to the red team.

 

[Kshitiz_Indian]

Well, I'm sure you won't regret moving away, I have had less issues since I made the switch to the red team.

Lol. I've had no issues with my team green experience for the past 1 month. No Driver issues or game issues. And its not that nVidia release only 2-3 drivers an year. I've even seen like 3 driver releases in a single month(In the days of 16x.xx). Things are changing.

Plus most people are bugged by too many driver releases.

 

[The_gas]

If you say so mate.