Don Bradman Cricket 17 General Discussion

[blockerdave]

Another idea or suggestion for using bowling HUD to best use..A way to represent skills to the player on which delivery to bowl to get best result and variations effective level..

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This way looking at the HUD itself we would get the idea as the skills [hopefully] will be playing really important role in gameplay..I also would like a black [maybe transparent] which would be blocked and the bowler will not be able to bowl that delivery and might gain access slowly playing years of cricket in career...Also would be useful for rare part timers who shouldnt be able to bowl variations...The opponent can know the Strong and weak skill only..So it becomes challenging for both the players on reading the deliveries the bowler can or will bowl , more of a mind game...

As long as it applied to the AI as well and impacted their selections, that really is a fantastic idea. Helpful to newbies and legends alike.

 

[cricket_online]

Generally men's sport is open, and women's is closed.

This means women can play in men's sport if they wish. They generally don't, since for reasons of pure physicality they wouldn't make the grade. (Even Sarah Taylor never played 1st Team.)

Re equality i am a great believer in Steven Pinker's observation that equality is not the empirical fact that all groups are identical/interchangeable, but the moral principle that individuals shouldn't be constrained by the average properties of their group.

I am personally lookimg forward to seeing how female cricket is implemented and if/how it feels different to male. I think it is great that BA have done it and done it properly.

But since mixed cricket is very rare, and non-existent at top levels, it not being included in the game is not really a surprise.

IMO we should still have an option to select players from both genders in a team if we want and play against whichever team we wish.

 

[blockerdave]

IMO we should still have an option to select players from both genders in a team if we want and play against whichever team we wish.

Do you know if it is even technically feasible? I mean i am presuming there are differences in the physics and physicality, and in the way skills and attributes work or are graded... if so it would not necessarily be an easy thing to switch between on the fly as would be needed in mixed game. I imagine that would present huge coding and hardware challenges.

All that additional overhead for something that doesn't exist in the real world nor is likely to in any foreseeable future. That "should" be added to what is a 2nd iteration of a niche game from a relatively small developer.

Mate that is tweaking dumb.

 

[cricket_online]

Do you know if it is even technically feasible? I mean i am presuming there are differences in the physics and physicality, and in the way skills and attributes work or are graded... if so it would not necessarily be an easy thing to switch between on the fly as would be needed in mixed game. I imagine that would present huge coding and hardware challenges.

All that additional overhead for something that doesn't exist in the real world nor is likely to in any foreseeable future. That "should" be added to what is a 2nd iteration of a niche game from a relatively small developer.

Mate that is tweaking dumb.

Why should that be the case? Game physics - interaction between bat & ball or ball & the ground etc. - will remain the same irrespective of the teams or players. As for skills & attributes every individual player has his/her own unique skills and attributes which is factored by the game as that would be the reason for all the skills/attributes editing within the academy. If I select a woman player in my team and say she faces Steyn in the game, her skills/attributes should determine the outcome against the delivery. I don't understand why this would be "dumb".

 

[blockerdave]

Why should that be the case? Game physics - interaction between bat & ball or ball & the ground etc. - will remain the same irrespective of the teams or players. As for skills & attributes every individual player has his/her own unique skills and attributes which is factored by the game as that would be the reason for all the skills/attributes editing within the academy. If I select a woman player in my team and say she faces Steyn in the game, her skills/attributes should determine the outcome against the delivery. I don't understand why this would be "dumb".

What's dumb is your sense of entitlement that a developer who has already gone further than any other developer elsewhere "should" give you something that you've spent all of 2 seconds thinking through the practicalities of.

What's dumb is thinking physics is ball to bat and bal to ground and nothing else. What about the strength of the player bowling/throwing/striking the ball, and those potentially being on different scales. Different scales of running, diving etc. which have a physics dimension beyond "skills and attributes".

What's dumb is thinking the skills and attributes are going to be on the same scale (99.94% @MattW has confirmed they are not) or thinking 2 different scales can easily be calibrated on the fly to determine an outcome with no additional processing and hardware overhead.

What's dumb is thinking 2 totally different player models and mo-caps can swarm around the field with no processing, hardware or coding overhead.

What's dumb is thinking a developer "should" ignore all that and sink resource into it anyway.

 

[cricket_online]

What's dumb is your sense of entitlement that a developer who has already gone further than any other developer elsewhere "should" give you something that you've spent all of 2 seconds thinking through the practicalities of.

What's dumb is thinking physics is ball to bat and bal to ground and nothing else. What about the strength of the player bowling/throwing/striking the ball, and those potentially being on different scales. Different scales of running, diving etc. which have a physics dimension beyond "skills and attributes".

What's dumb is thinking the skills and attributes are going to be on the same scale (99.94% @MattW has confirmed they are not) or thinking 2 different scales can easily be calibrated on the fly to determine an outcome with no additional processing and hardware overhead.

What's dumb is thinking 2 totally different player models and mo-caps can swarm around the field with no processing, hardware or coding overhead.

What's dumb is thinking a developer "should" ignore all that and sink resource into it anyway.

Dude you have some serious anger issues is all I can say... Let me respond to your points in a civil manner.

1. Physics - I'm reiterating the physics engine doesn't change according to the skills/attributes of the player. If a male player throws the ball harder, the female ones would throw at a slower speed and so on so forth. It's no different from having someone players with disparate skills on the field together. You have likes of Pollard and Ramdin and it's a similar approach.

2. And yes it's a reasonable assumption that there's a mechanism used by Big Ant for caliberating skills & attributes for male & female players. One approach is used to use the absolute scale in which case you have male cricketer have an attribute of say 90 and have corresponding attribute for a female cricketer is 70. Other is a relative scale where both male and female are rated the same say 90 but you have a calibration factor of .8 applied so the in absolute terms the female cricketer will have a value of 90 * .8 = 72

3. As for mixing "mo caps" there are multiple mo caps used and instead of using all "male" mo caps some of them would be male others would be female oriented. Instead of rendering say 2 male mo-caps you are using 1 male and 1 female mo-cap for rendering.

4. How you interpret I'm asking Big Ant to "ignore all that" and "sink resource" is beyond me.

One final point. I come here to discuss a sport and genre (cricket video game) which I love with like minded folks. I may be right or I may be wrong or I may disagree with others but I expect folks to at least be civil without making it akin to facebook or youtube comments section.

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

@cricket_online Mate its already been said that mixed teams is not possible as both function really different in the game and the physics , animations all would collide in the game...They have created separate animations for women's cricket and separate for me..So that case isnt possible....This was asked way before when there were talks of women cricket included in the game of DBC...It would be great but when it makes it complicated we can enjoy the depth of this game separately with separate genders..

 

[cricket_online]

@cricket_online Mate its already been said that mixed teams is not possible as both function really different in the game and the physics , animations all would collide in the game...They have created separate animations for women's cricket and separate for me..So that case isnt possible....This was asked way before when there were talks of women cricket included in the game of DBC...It would be great but when it makes it complicated we can enjoy the depth of this game separately with separate genders..

That's fair enough

 

[blockerdave]

There is no anger in my post whatsoever.

To answer your points:

1) 2) 3) there are so many physical differences between men and women that would need representing in the game. Neither you nor I know how this has been done by BA and how the mathematics are tied in to the player models, or how easy it is to mix and match. I have just tried to give some examples of areas where complexities may arrive. Your "yeah but no" dismissal, betraying as it does next to no understanding of the actual practicalities, is embarrassing.

4) your comment, dripping with self-entitlement that you "should" be able to mox and match means big ant "should" have put it in. Again it betrays no deeper thought of whether it might include deeper complexities. Not a single deeper thought than "i want". It is abhorrent.

Now i wouldn't argue that it might be an interesting proposition to try a mixed mode, if it were practicable, but to say it should be there is dumb dumb dumb.[DOUBLEPOST=1472320702][/DOUBLEPOST]

That's fair enough

Oh now it's fair enough? But hang on i thought the physics and skills weren't a problem just something that should be determined?

 

[blockerdave]

@cricket_online Mate its already been said that mixed teams is not possible as both function really different in the game and the physics , animations all would collide in the game...They have created separate animations for women's cricket and separate for me..So that case isnt possible....This was asked way before when there were talks of women cricket included in the game of DBC...It would be great but when it makes it complicated we can enjoy the depth of this game separately with separate genders..

Yes, exactly thank you... everything that i have been trying to tell him.. but oh no it "should" be in the game...

Thank you for rescuing me

 

[issue]

Happy birthday Don bradman

 

[Gamer Pradosh]

Yes, exactly thank you... everything that i have been trying to tell him.. but oh no it "should" be in the game...

Thank you for rescuing me

Its not their fault the game gets over us..Its just the love for the game more than anything..Might be an issue but could be controlled when expressed in an effective way that's all..

 

[rishabh9627]

This would be great as this line & length "tell" just before the delivery is bowled will also allow users to select the appropriate shot and reduce the amount of pre-meditation while batting. I trust Big Ant to come up with some sort of an option or solution to do so.

the only solution could be to reduce the speed with which bowler bowls the ball at different difficulty levels
at amateur or rookie if a fast bowler bowls 120-130 kph deliveries u can easily read the line and length after ball is released from the hand
this would also ensure that the game's realistic-ness remains intact and users who are not used to cricket are also able to play and enjoy the game as well
its actually great that this time around BA have put batting , bowling nd fielding tutorials for everybody to get a hang of controls

 

[cricket_online]

the only solution could be to reduce the speed with which bowler bowls the ball at different difficulty levels
at amateur or rookie if a fast bowler bowls 120-130 kph deliveries u can easily read the line and length after ball is released from the hand
this would also ensure that the game's realistic-ness remains intact and users who are not used to cricket are also able to play and enjoy the game as well
its actually great that this time around BA have put batting , bowling nd fielding tutorials for everybody to get a hang of controls

I would rather Big Ant find a solution where the "tell/indicator" is displayed just before the delivery is bowled so there's no slowing down or reducing the speed. Playing Amateur or Rookie level dumbs down all aspects of the game and I wouldn't want to play those difficulty levels.

 

[N_stbss]

The bowling animation(s) should give non-HUD hints such as drag downs or early release for long hops and full tosses as for the length.