England

[shravi]

Those are all International cricketers!

edit: except maybe Rayudu and tiwari, not sure if they have caps

They are Indian players. Vijay and Ashwin are not established players in the International circuit if that's your definition of international players.

 

[pcfan123]

Guess I should have clarified, I meant the no-name domestic players in English twenty20 are much better than the no-name domestic Indian ones.

 

[Cricketman]

Badri, Nayar, etc have only played like 2-3 games each.

Ashwin hasn't played any games. Jakati either. They were good enough to bench Murali a few times. What about Suman from DC? Vinay Kumar was excellent with RCB. Shikhar Dhawan, Ajinkya Rahane, Chet Pujara, Manoj Tiwary, Abhishek Nayar and the like had an off IPL, but I am willing to bet my bottom dollar that they will trump any English counterpart. However, you guys probably have us beat in terms of fast bowlers. Just the way it works

Suresh Raina, Shane Watson, and many other players found a resurgence in their careers only because of the IPL. It is top quality cricket.

 

[King Pietersen]

I'm interested to hear that you think Shah would be better in ODIs than in T20s. In a full-strenght ENG ODI team (with Flintoff playing)

Strauss/Lumb
Kieswetter
Trott
KP
Colly
Morgan
Flintoff
Mascarenhas/Bresnan
Swann
Broad
Anderson

I cant see how Shah would fit into this team. Even if Freddie doesn't play, Luke Wright although i dont rate him will come in.

I wouldn't have Shah in my team, but he has a better case for ODi selection than T20 selection AFAIC. My full-strength ODi side with everyone fit and firing would be:

Strauss
Kieswetter
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Morgan
Wright
Swann
Broad
Napier
Anderson

But as i've showed before Shah would fit into the T20 team much easier, especially for the upcoming T20 world cup as the man to attack the spinners in the middle-overs. Very straightforward.

You had him batting #6. I'd hope that we weren't 4 down by the middle overs personally. Pietersen and Morgan are there to attack the spinners in the middle overs, and both do it far better than Shah. Shah's a decent player of spin, but he's not so good that he has to play in spinning conditions. I'm far happier seeing the 2 all-rounders in Yardy and Wright filling in those spots in the lower-middle order. Wright at 6 and Yardy at 7 is more than enough batting. Might not be as explosive as other sides, but with Kieswetter, Lumb, Pietersen, Collingwood and Morgan we shouldn't need Yardy to do too much batting.

As for Yardy not being as explosive as the likes of Pollard, Pathan, Morkel etc, that would not be his job. Wright's the one capable of doing that job. Wright is definitely in the same league as Pollard and Pathan. All 3 are basically sloggers, that have largely disappointed Internationally, but are capable of playing sensational knocks. Yardy's the more sensible finisher. He didn't have a great season with the bat for Sussex, but I think he's capable of doing a decent job. With the Top 5 ahead of Wright and Yardy I think we've got a more than capable batting line-up. I don't really see the need to be debating it personally, as I think it's very strong. It's the bowling I'm worried about, we certainly need Yardy's bowling depth far more than Shah's ability to play spin.

 

[War]

I wouldn't have Shah in my team, but he has a better case for ODi selection than T20 selection AFAIC. My full-strength ODi side with everyone fit and firing would be:

Strauss
Kieswetter
Pietersen
Collingwood
Flintoff
Morgan
Wright
Swann
Broad
Napier
Anderson

No way can or should Luke Wright play in a full-strenght ENG ODI team with Flintoff playing. The reason Wright is even in the team is because he unfortunately is the best replacement for Flintoff to bat @#7 in the ODI side.

Surely Trott is must pick in the ODI side??. Just a few posts a go you where rightfully championing how Trott should have been in the T20 team, now in the best ENG ODI you are leaving him out for Wright? Confusion..

You had him batting #6. I'd hope that we weren't 4 down by the middle overs personally. Pietersen and Morgan are there to attack the spinners in the middle overs, and both do it far better than Shah. Shah's a decent player of spin, but he's not so good that he has to play in spinning conditions. I'm far happier seeing the 2 all-rounders in Yardy and Wright filling in those spots in the lower-middle order. Wright at 6 and Yardy at 7 is more than enough batting. Might not be as explosive as other sides, but with Kieswetter, Lumb, Pietersen, Collingwood and Morgan we shouldn't need Yardy to do too much batting.

Ha you make it sound as if its a dead sure thing that the top 5 of Kieswetter/Lumb/KP/Morgan/Collingwood will fire EVERY GAME. Come on man for a international T20 side you need batting way down to # 8 if you can. So Yardy & Wright will be needed on some occassion to bat for an extended period, since the top 5 can be skittled on the odd occassion.

Thats is where the selection of Yardy messes us up. The more solid batting the better. Having Shah in the top 6 (i would say Shah, Morgan, Colly could rotatate between # 4-6 depending on the match situation, the middle order doesn't have to be robotic) who has we agree is a very good player of spin. Clearly brings more solidity than having Bopara there (who will struggle batting in the middle-overs) & Yardy who you have admitted isn't explosive enough - which makes England weaker compared to other top 8 nations.

Luke Wright also is still not much of a player, he is still very much a hit & miss player.

So overall what you have a solid top 5 & a joker @ 6 & a hit & miss #7. If the top 5 is skittled in any game, its almost as if the tail will begin @ 6 since we will be f***ked.:doh

Wright's the one capable of doing that job. Wright is definitely in the same league as Pollard and Pathan. All 3 are basically sloggers, that have largely disappointed Internationally, but are capable of playing sensational knocks.

:laugh KP my friend stop. You cannot seriously by saying Wright is anywhere near the same league as Pollard, Pathan & Morkel??. Come on now, ease the overblown rhetoric.

Those three are so ahead of Wright it not even funny. They bring far more stability to their respective teams lower-order than what Wright gives us. Really man..

As for Yardy not being as explosive as the likes of Pollard, Pathan, Morkel etc, that would not be his job.

Yardy's the more sensible finisher. He didn't have a great season with the bat for Sussex, but I think he's capable of doing a decent job.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this in a T20 context. But if i think i follow you right a "sensible finisher" is probably a finisher who isn't a 6 hitter - but sort of Bevanesque in his accuminlation of runs in the last few overs. E.g the player would more likely score a 40 ball 50 instead of a 20-25 ball half-century??.

Yardy DEFINATELY AFAIC cannot be depended on to do this consistently againts international bowlers. Again another reason why Shah clearly should have been in the team, i really can't see how you are not seeing this man.

With the Top 5 ahead of Wright and Yardy I think we've got a more than capable batting line-up. I don't really see the need to be debating it personally, as I think it's very strong. It's the bowling I'm worried about, we certainly need Yardy's bowling depth far more than Shah's ability to play spin.

As i said above you seem to have trapped yourself in the illusion that our Top 5 will score runs every game. You have to cater for the fact that they can get skittled. Thats is why having as long as batting was needed, again by having Shah in the top 6.

Wright is not Flintoff @ 7. We should be hoping that Wright has a little of responsibilty to bat in the tournament god spare life. Surely you dont want him coming in with 10 overs to spare with England 70/5 & having to repair & slog out at the end. He is no Boucher to do such a dynamic dual role. At best we want Wright coming in with 3-5 overs left with England's top 6 already done the amjor work & all he has to do is swing like their is no 2moro...

Batting was indeed supposed to be England's strenght since our bowling without Flintoff is not superb. England's best chance of doing big in this T20 world cup was to back our batting to score big runs - then let the bowling do their best to defend whatever score is on the board. Or inversely back ourselves in a big run chase. But by picking Yardy & potentially giving Wright more responsibilty than he is proven in his career that he can handle - such a possible tournament winning tactic has been lost.

 

[King Pietersen]

Surely Trott is must pick in the ODI side??. Just a few posts a go you where rightfully championing how Trott should have been in the T20 team, now in the best ENG ODI you are leaving him out for Wright? Confusion..

Forgot about Trott tbh. He'd be in ahead of Wright.

:laugh KP my friend stop. You cannot seriously by saying Wright is anywhere near the same league as Pollard, Pathan & Morkel??. Come on now, ease the overblown rhetoric.

Those three are so ahead of Wright it not even funny. They bring far more stability to their respective teams lower-order than what Wright gives us. Really man..

Morkel is, at least he's proven it at International level. But Pollard and Pathan have done sweet FA at International level. I don't see how Pollard or Pathan have that far ahead of Wright. Pollard's so over-rated. Been a complete dud for the West Indies, bowls pies with the ball (Wright's a much better bowler than Pollard and Pathan) and his batting certainly isn't that far ahead of Wright.

Wright is not Flintoff @ 7. We should be hoping that Wright has a little of responsibilty to bat in the tournament god spare life. Surely you dont want him coming in with 10 overs to spare with England 70/5 & having to repair & slog out at the end. He is no Boucher to do such a dynamic dual role. At best we want Wright coming in with 3-5 overs left with England's top 6 already done the amjor work & all he has to do is swing like their is no 2moro...

Batting was indeed supposed to be England's strenght since our bowling without Flintoff is not superb. England's best chance of doing big in this T20 world cup was to back our batting to score big runs - then let the bowling do their best to defend whatever score is on the board. Or inversely back ourselves in a big run chase. But by picking Yardy & potentially giving Wright more responsibilty than he is proven in his career that he can handle - such a possible tournament winning tactic has been lost.

Well we'll have to just wait and see won't we. I personally think England'll do better than many are expecting, and I think Wright'll have a decent tournament if given the chance.

 

[War]

Guess I should have clarified, I meant the no-name domestic players in English twenty20 are much better than the no-name domestic Indian ones.

Hmm i'd say you may have a point here. I dont believe i've seen any county cricketer as bad as a Harmeet Singh, Kamran Khan etc etc. The IPL seems to give any Indian a chance to play - but at least county players pick best professionals (even if they aren't the greatest also).

But overall the overall standard is still better if you add it all up.

- Each IPL team will have at least 4 quality international players. A English county during our T20 Cup will be lucky to have as much as two per team.

- Secondly. You have the established Indian nations players spread out over the various franchises. Inda obviously being a better ODI time than England, makes the Indian ODI players better than ours obviously.

- Plus the quality Indian domestic players who have not had any international games are better than ours - but no by much. No England county spinners is better than Chennai Super Kings duo of Ashwin & Jakati.

Shikar Dhawan & Mankud as young opener is better than Goldeman or Joe Denly

So overall IPL indeed does have an edge.

 

[pcfan123]

So how bout that Yardy bowling War

3 of the biggest Bangla scalps you can get

 

[War]

Ha well i have always said that i expect Yardy bowling to have some use. Its his batting that i don't believe will have any impact.

 

[pcfan123]

Brilliant job keeping the Saffers to 125

Just about everyone bowled economically, Bresnan the only man over 6.5 rpo but I doubt he will play to begin with. Loving the Yardy - Swann combo.

Typical bad start to the chase, Lumb is a bit troubling, he might not be International caliber (even in Twenty20). I would not read too much into KP's duck, he was starting to show form towards the end of the IPL :upray



btw are any of the warmups being televised?



EDIT:

4/5 Yardy scalps so far : G Smith, AB DeVilliers, Shakib ul Hasan, Ashraful

 

[Ollie_H]

England really aren't going to get that far. Our batting line up HAS to look like;

Keiswetter
Lumb
Pietersen
Morgan
Collingwood

Simply cos there is no one in the squad. That's not a good batting line up, especially as Lumb is gonna be a complete dud. He didn't even set the IPL world alight.

 

[pcfan123]

Bopara > Lumb I say, agree with the rest

 

[Dare]

Getting Ashraful out isn't a big achievement at all. He does it himself.

 

[Ollie_H]

Woops, forgot about Bopara. If you were going by the last game, gotta give him a go. He seemed to have played prettyy well.

 

[pcfan123]

Getting Ashraful out isn't a big achievement at all. He does it himself.

Yea but he is still someone who can hit the slower bowlers in Twenty20. Point being he was not a freebie end of the innings Twenty20 wicket.

hMarka added 1 Minutes and 14 Seconds later...

Its been pretty fail so far this innings, Morgan is holding it together and Colly once again has to save England.

hMarka added 1 Minutes and 21 Seconds later...

Woops, forgot about Bopara. If you were going by the last game, gotta give him a go. He seemed to have played prettyy well.

Not sure how he went in IPL but he played some big limited overs innings in NZ domestic recently. Plus he has a lot more experience than Lumb.