Facing the facts of history - Windies greater than Aussies

In India Cricket is not regarded as sports.........If it was then it's state would have been like that of football,hockey...
Cricket is regarded as a lob which would give you name,fame,money and celebrity status.
So that's the reason why most of the talent in India is wasted.Parents of Irfan Pathan,Dhoni are highly relieved that their sons are cricketers.
 
Australia XI under Steve Waugh & Ricky Ponting (1999-2007)

01. Justin Langer (6467 runs @ 48.26, 21 hundreds)
02. Matthew Hayden (7132 runs @ 58.45, 26 hundreds)
03. Ricky Ponting (7840 runs @ 64.79, 30 hundreds)
04. Mark Waugh (2025 runs @ 36.16, 4 hundreds)
05. Steve Waugh (3714 runs @ 52.30,15 hundreds)
06. Damien Martyn (3442 runs @ 46.51, 10 hundreds)
07. Adam Gilchrist (5048 runs @ 49.98, 16 hundreds)
08. Shane Warne (375 wickets @ 25.38, 22x5 & 6x10)
09. Brett Lee (229 wickets @ 31.14, 7x5 & 0x10)
10. Jason Gillespie (195 wickets @ 27.52, 3x5 & 0x10)
11. Glenn McGrath (332 wickets @ 20.63, 16x5 & 3x10)

West Indies XI under Clive Lloyd (1974-1985)

01. Gordon Greenidge (4460 runs @ 50.11, 11 hundreds)
02. Desmond Haynes (2749 runs @ 38.71, 7 hundreds)
03. Sir Vivian Richards (5332 runs @ 52.79, 17 hundreds)
04. Alvin Kallicharran (2381 runs @ 39.68, 6 hundreds)
05. Clive Lloyd (5233 runs @ 51.30, 14 hundreds)
06. Larry Gomes (2010 runs @ 47.85, 7 hundreds)
07. Jeff Dujon (1478 runs @ 43.47, 3 hundreds)
08. Malcom Marshall (151 wickets @ 21.16, 12x5 & 1x10)
09. Andy Roberts (196 wickets @ 25.15, 11x5 & 2x10)
10. Michael Holding (218 wickets @ 22.72, 13x5 & 2x10)
11. Joel Garner (194 wickets @ 21.76, 5x5 & 0x10)
 
Why exclude the 10 years after 85 in which the WI didn't lose a test series. 1st series loss since 1980 came in 94/95 when Australia won 2-1.
 
08. Malcom Marshall (151 wickets @ 21.16, 12x5 & 1x10)
09. Andy Roberts (196 wickets @ 25.15, 11x5 & 2x10)
10. Michael Holding (218 wickets @ 22.72, 13x5 & 2x10)
11. Joel Garner (194 wickets @ 21.76, 5x5 & 0x10)
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Better than Australia's bowling attack. Thats without adding Ian Bishop, Ambrose etc.
 
Dare said:
and Courtney Walsh.
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Yeah, Walsh too. Got over 500 test wickets at an average of 24.

metallics2006 added 2 Minutes and 31 Seconds later...

Found a very interesting thing about Walsh. But it does'nt have anything to do with this topic. His best bowling figures in ODIs is 5 wickets for 1 run. Thats his only 5fer in his ODI career.
 
Mate, all of the players that I listed for the West Indies played under the captaincy of Clive Lloyd. That's why I clearly gave the heading "West Indies XI under Clive Lloyd" as that was arguably the point where the West Indies at one specific time we at their strongest.

aussie_ben91 added 2 Minutes and 21 Seconds later...

Dare said:
Why exclude the 10 years after 85 in which the WI didn't lose a test series. 1st series loss since 1980 came in 94/95 when Australia won 2-1.
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The players I didn't mention, didn't play any or very little cricket under Clive Lloyd. The statistics that are next to their names are their statistics under the captaincy of Clive Lloyd. Same goes for Australia under Ricky Ponting & Steve Waugh.
 
the same players that played under Lloyd played under Sir Viv after Lloyd retired. If you are including the guys under Waugh and Ponting you might as well include the ones under Viv and Lloyd.

a few players might have been different but you can pick and choose.
 
The West Indies team of 80's was better than Waugh/Punter's team of late 90s and 2000's because:

1. WI team lost seldom where as Australian team lost quite a few test matches.
2. Australia never won consistently against India. WI dominated ALL test playing nations at that time.
3. WI team was a bunch of dominating. most feared yet a respectable and popular team. Australian team was unpopular because of sledging/controversies etc.

@ Ben

You are right when you said that the Aussie team had a better/experienced line up than WI but WI definitely had a better bowling line up.
McGrath, Lee and Gillespie hardly played together. Australia mostly preferred Kasper over Lee as Lee was crap acc. to the selectors.

No comparison between Gillespie, Kasper, Damien Fleming, Paul Reifell, and of Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Joel Garner just like there is no comparison between Shane Warne:hpraise and any WI spinner (ANY spinner to be fair).

jontyrhodes added 1 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

One thing to note. The great West Indian team mostly played test matched. Aussie team dominated ODIs as well as test (a lot of them).
 
aussie_ben91 said:
Australia XI under Steve Waugh & Ricky Ponting (1999-2007)

01. Justin Langer (6467 runs @ 48.26, 21 hundreds)
02. Matthew Hayden (7132 runs @ 58.45, 26 hundreds)
03. Ricky Ponting (7840 runs @ 64.79, 30 hundreds)
04. Mark Waugh (2025 runs @ 36.16, 4 hundreds)
05. Steve Waugh (3714 runs @ 52.30,15 hundreds)
06. Damien Martyn (3442 runs @ 46.51, 10 hundreds)
07. Adam Gilchrist (5048 runs @ 49.98, 16 hundreds)
08. Shane Warne (375 wickets @ 25.38, 22x5 & 6x10)
09. Brett Lee (229 wickets @ 31.14, 7x5 & 0x10)
10. Jason Gillespie (195 wickets @ 27.52, 3x5 & 0x10)
11. Glenn McGrath (332 wickets @ 20.63, 16x5 & 3x10)

West Indies XI under Clive Lloyd (1974-1985)

01. Gordon Greenidge (4460 runs @ 50.11, 11 hundreds)
02. Desmond Haynes (2749 runs @ 38.71, 7 hundreds)
03. Sir Vivian Richards (5332 runs @ 52.79, 17 hundreds)
04. Alvin Kallicharran (2381 runs @ 39.68, 6 hundreds)
05. Clive Lloyd (5233 runs @ 51.30, 14 hundreds)
06. Larry Gomes (2010 runs @ 47.85, 7 hundreds)
07. Jeff Dujon (1478 runs @ 43.47, 3 hundreds)
08. Malcom Marshall (151 wickets @ 21.16, 12x5 & 1x10)
09. Andy Roberts (196 wickets @ 25.15, 11x5 & 2x10)
10. Michael Holding (218 wickets @ 22.72, 13x5 & 2x10)
11. Joel Garner (194 wickets @ 21.76, 5x5 & 0x10)
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This has many flaws... eg; cricket has changed and has become more batsman friendly..
 
Dare said:
the same players that played under Lloyd played under Sir Viv after Lloyd retired. If you are including the guys under Waugh and Ponting you might as well include the ones under Viv and Lloyd.

a few players might have been different but you can pick and choose.
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Why would you do that though?

Waugh & Ponting's era lasted 8 years whilst Lloyd's era lasted 9 years. I was going to put only Waugh's era but it only lasted 5 years. 8 & 9 years are pretty much similar, but if I specifically put Waugh's side, then it would be allot better then Waugh & Ponting's side put together.

jontyrhodes said:
The West Indies team of 80's was better than Waugh/Punter's team of late 90s and 2000's because:

1. WI team lost seldom where as Australian team lost quite a few test matches.
2. Australia never won consistently against India. WI dominated ALL test playing nations at that time.
3. WI team was a bunch of dominating. most feared yet a respectable and popular team. Australian team was unpopular because of sledging/controversies etc.

@ Ben

You are right when you said that the Aussie team had a better/experienced line up than WI but WI definitely had a better bowling line up.
McGrath, Lee and Gillespie hardly played together. Australia mostly preferred Kasper over Lee as Lee was crap acc. to the selectors.

No comparison between Gillespie, Kasper, Damien Fleming, Paul Reifell, and of Roberts, Holding, Marshall, Joel Garner just like there is no comparison between Shane Warne and any WI spinner (ANY spinner to be fair).

jontyrhodes added 1 Minutes and 19 Seconds later...

One thing to note. The great West Indian team mostly played test matched. Aussie team dominated ODIs as well as test (a lot of them).
Click to expand...
1. Australia had better competition.
2. I doubt the West Indies would've had much success against India in India in the modern era, seeing as their batsman never faced true quality spin and they didn't have a quality spinner either. They never had to bowl to Tendulkar either.
3. The West Indies bombarded batsman with bouncers, trying to knock their heads off. That's hardly in the spirit of the game, is it?

McGrath, Gillespie & Lee played tons together. Warne & McGrath are better bowlers then any West Indies bowler that was mentioned in that lineup and Gillespie was almost as good as McGrath in his peak. Australia had a much better batting lineup aswell.

Hayden > Greenidge
Langer > Haynes
Viv > Ponting
Mark Waugh > Kallicharran
Steve Waugh > Lloyd
Martyn > Gomes
Gilchrist > Dujon
 
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