How highly should Dale Steyn be rated?.

[Epic]

Steyn is the best fast bowler I've ever seen, then again, I'm still fairly young and thus missed out on the greats of the era gone by.

 

[sifter132]

Well he's right up there. I personally like the more stifling bowlers like McGrath, Ambrose and Pollock. None of those guys bowl with the pace or swing that Steyn has, but they offer a different kind of examination for batsmen. But after those guys I would argue Steyn is in the mix for the 4th greatest fast bowler I've seen. He's got some competition though: Allan Donald, Courtney Walsh, Waqar Younis, Wasim Akram. That would be my top 8 anyway...

 

[spooony]

Because that is exaggerating it a bit.

Of course the majority of 2000-2010 period has had alot of flat pitches. But when Steyn started to peak in April 2006, he has bowled on ALOT of bowler friendly pitches in the last 4 years in almost every series he has played. So in reality its not as if he had to bowl on roads all the time.

So one can say in the last couple of years along with revival in quality pace attacks amongsts the top 8 teams. Revival in helpul pitches has been seen.

2010 has seen ALOT of bowler friendly pitches worlwide than flat pitches too if you think about all the series played this year.




---------- Post added at 02:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:12 AM ----------



Interesting that you rate Donald in your top 5 quicks of al-time.

For me when rating grate fast bowlers in a possible top 10, the top 4 are always Marshall, Lillee, Hadlee, Imran.

Then from there its highly subjective from # 5 onwards with the likes of Ambrose, McGrath, Donald, Wasim, Trueman, Lindwall

Actually Steyn was Mr Nice guy. Ran in bowled. There was no aggressive streak. Then one day he knocked out a Kiwi batsman and Steyn turned into a true aggressive fast bowler who can swing the ball both ways and get that reverse swing. Also why many people come to like him is his bowling action. Its so fluent style like the fast bowlers of old and that alone is a joy to watch when he runs in.

Alan Donald was pace. He was extremely fast. He was one of those who beats the batsman reflexes with pace rather than relying on a line the batsman is playing in then let it deviate a small bit. Like McGrath he was a seam bowler.

Allan Donald, Steyn, Akthar, Younis, Donald, Olonga and there are many more others are strike bowlers. That is use pure pace and aggression to get wickets even if it cost you a couple of runs.

What makes Steyn a bit different than the other bowlers is that he manages to get swing, seam movement and reverse swing.

If he gets them all going this happens.

Just look at that reverse he gets.

Here is some of my favorite SA fast bowlers

Fanie De Villiers

Allan Donald

Shaun Pollock

Ntini

Although this one is not Sout African he is a good example what a strike bowler is. He can go for a lot but if he catches fire WATCH OUT!

 

[sifter132]

A stats article on Cricinfo today compares Steyn with the other fast men who got to 300 wickets quickly:
Dale Steyn 300 Test wickets : Dale Steyn 300 Test wickets: Exceptional in Test wins | Cricket Features | Global | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[macintosh]

The main arguement to underrate the current batsmen is the kind of bats that are used, small grounds, flatter pitches, etc. I find these arguements rubbish but that's what most of the people say when there is a comparison between two batsmen from different eras, its the easiest way to prove that the batsmen of the past era achieved more. If that's really true, than Steyn is way better than any of the bowlers of the previous era. Its pretty clear that he has done well despite of the so called "smaller grounds", "batsmen friendly pitches" and "improved bats".
And you just can't imagine a batsmen facing Steyn without a helmet
Steyn would murder a lot of them.

 

[JG1995]

The best Indeed.

 

[spooony]

The main thing about him is he picks up a wicket every game. Rarely he go without a wicket and if he does he is very economical which usually show batsman or teams use a strategy to see him off rather to try and score of him. Philander is a accurate wicket to wicket bowler and Morkel gets a lot of bounce. Peterson seems to do fill the spinners job nicely with his dibley dobleys

 

[Fenil]

If I had to compare Dale Steyn with anyother player that I've watched playing over the years, I'd compare Dale Steyn to Waqar Younis in tests and that to the older Brett Lee in ODIs. Some rate him a bit too high in ODIs. I'd say Morne is better than Dale in ODIs but when its comes to Tests, its Steyn all the way at the moment.

 

[sifter132]

The main thing about him is he picks up a wicket every game. Rarely he go without a wicket and if he does he is very economical which usually show batsman or teams use a strategy to see him off rather to try and score of him. Philander is a accurate wicket to wicket bowler and Morkel gets a lot of bounce. Peterson seems to do fill the spinners job nicely with his dibley dobleys

Steyn's not really economical though...Of bowlers to take over 200 wickets, only Brett Lee (3.46) and Chris Martin (3.37) have higher economy rates than Steyn (3.35). Mitchell Johnson is also 3.35.

Steyn's strength is the amount of wicket taking deliveries he manages to bowl, not tying down batsmen. That's why he's got one of the best strike rates ever, but not the best average ever..

 

[spooony]

Steyn's not really economical though...Of bowlers to take over 200 wickets, only Brett Lee (3.46) and Chris Martin (3.37) have higher economy rates than Steyn (3.35). Mitchell Johnson is also 3.35.

Steyn's strength is the amount of wicket taking deliveries he manages to bowl, not tying down batsmen. That's why he's got one of the best strike rates ever, but not the best average ever..

I think you are using Cric.info stats then totally ignoring the era they played in.

1980's RPO of each team

Highest was the Windies with 3.15
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

1990's Windies with 3,11
As expected as their cricket started to decline
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

2000's The lowest is the Windies at 3.06
Highest Australia @3.66
Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Last 5 years -
India @3.40
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Team records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Lets take into context the last 5 years the STRIKE bowlers economy rate 100 wickets minimum

Steyn @3.23 but considering he is a strike bowler he has a strike rate of 43.2 which is lower than anyone and a avg lower than anyone
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

To put that in context. His wickets cost him just above 23 runs while he basically bowled 7 overs.

Ajmal altough sending off @2.65 runs a over he has to bowl 10 overs costing him 27 runs a pop.

So no Steyn is the most economical per wicket and he did it with sending off less balls playing fewer matches

 

[sifter132]

Hey I'm not saying Steyn isn't a good bowler...happy to acknowledge Steyn's awesome strike rate.

But Steyn's economy is still above average even if you take into account modern play. Overall economy rate since 2000 is 3.20, so by definition, Steyn' 3.35 RPO is more expensive than average. But when you whittle down the high wicket takers it's more obvious. This table shows fast bowlers who've taken 100 wickets since 2000. There's 31 bowlers, and Steyn has the 8th highest RPO, so I wouldn't class him as an economical bowler, even by modern standards.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

 

[spooony]

Hey I'm not saying Steyn isn't a good bowler...happy to acknowledge Steyn's awesome strike rate.

But Steyn's economy is still above average even if you take into account modern play. Overall economy rate since 2000 is 3.20, so by definition, Steyn' 3.35 RPO is more expensive than average. But when you whittle down the high wicket takers it's more obvious. This table shows fast bowlers who've taken 100 wickets since 2000. There's 31 bowlers, and Steyn has the 8th highest RPO, so I wouldn't class him as an economical bowler, even by modern standards.
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Did you read what I said up there? Read it again because you are repeating yourself. And Steyn is not the 8th most economical or you did not read what you querry there. Press on eco to sort it from low to highest. Again his wickets cost him just above 23 runs.

But lets have a look the last 3 years on your criteria
Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPN Cricinfo

Is there a more economical strike bowler from your criteria the last 3 years?

 

[sifter132]

It seems I'm looking at economy rate, you're looking at average. eg. Anderson clearly has a lower economy rate than Steyn in that comparison you made. But Steyn's strike rate and average are better.

Oh well, it's been fun

 

[spooony]

It seems I'm looking at economy rate, you're looking at average. eg. Anderson clearly has a lower economy rate than Steyn in that comparison you made. But Steyn's strike rate and average are better.

Oh well, it's been fun

Steyn's economy rate is higher because he started slowly. That is why its around 3.35 avg. But last couple of years its down. His and Anderson are close enough. The avg tells you how many runs per wicket cost him and the strike rate how many balls. Which will give you a better idea what he actually cost per over and per wicket

 

[War]

Harsha Bhogle : Harsha Bhogle: Hail Dale Steyn | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo