ICC News: Restructuring the ICC, BCCI Influence & more

[IceAgeComing]

The Olympics issue is a perfect example of where the Big three (well, you probably could add in some of the Middle 7 as well) run rough-shod over everyone else in their interest. Like the ECBs "waa waa we'd have to lose four tests in a year!!" rubbish, when they managed to hold a full test summer including Ashes series in 2013 when the Champions Trophy was held in England (which is longer than the Olympics, mind) and and they only lost one when London actually held the Olympics in 2012, with the first Test being held in a Lords that like a week earlier had been an Archery Range. And Giles Clarke's "it would destroy West Indies cricket!!" when the WICB and everyone in the West Indies actually wants T20 Cricket in the Olympics! I've even heard "But there'd have to be a single British Team and no one wants that!!!" when Cricket Scotland have said that they don't care, because it would be a net positive for Cricket in Scotland anyway!

The real reason why it won't happen is because its a competition that would lead towards the loss of some games (a singular test match in England) and they wouldn't get all the money from running the thing. This is despite the fact that it would be a huge net positive in terms of smaller boards getting money to develop the game from their governments and also gives you a chance to evangelise the sport to a group that know nothing about it and wouldn't it is wasn't for the olympics. Sure it wouldn't be the most desirable competition in Cricket and it might not feature the full strength team of the bigger nations but I don't care since even if the Test nations all sent their under 13s it'd still be a huge net positive for world cricket. Besides its the bloody Olympics, ask Andy Murray if he didn't care about his Olympic Gold at home just because it wasn't as desirable as Wimbledon or the US Open. It won't happen, all because England lose a wee bit of money in the short term...

 

[PokerAce]

A Lot of posts in response, so I will try and fill in as many points in response as possible here.

I was not talking about TV Revenue only. ICC Revenue consists of more than just TV revenue. The extra point is also reduced costs, as the article I linked says there. One of the plans of increased revenue is that everyone gets more matches against the big three. Those are the money tours for everyone. So if there are more of these tours then the smaller sides earn more. Look at the SL example in the earlier post, where I quoted what each board has to say about the big three.

So consquently teams like SL, WI will get to play and host more matches against the big three. SL just hosted India, will host Aus and Eng soon alone giving them a revenue of $ 48 mil. Consider this in light of the fact that for the entire last 8 yr cycle SL got $52 mil as a share. From just three tours SL now earns that much. WI will host more games against the big three. Aus just toured there, India are to tour there next year and I am England will follow there soon.

I will once again post what the NZ board has to say about the Big Three. Its just perfect for the scenario where all kinds of things are being floated about how Big Three are duping the other boards.

“There was a lot of speculation in the media last week that we would get some crumbs from the big guys and just end up playing mainly the small guys,” he told New Zealand’s Radio LiveSport. “That’s not going to happen. We’ve locked in good commitments from Australia, England and India through that 10-year period (to 2023).” ... He said NZC was set to receive revenues of US$70-100 million from the ICC between 2015 and 2023 under the planned reforms, compared to the US$52 million it had received in the past eight years. “Things have come a long way from where they started,” he said. “Where they’re sitting right now, they’re looking pretty good for us.”

If you don't want to trust the BCCI or ECB or ACB about the big three, can we all atleast listen to and trust the 7 boards for whom everyone is so concerned, when they say, hold on the Big Three is quite all right. NZC being one such board who say they get more matches with the 'Big Three', and around a 35% hike in revenue atleast from what we were getting in the previous cycle.

Also as I posted earlier WICB have gone on record to say that their revenue after the Big Three will Double !!

Now why is this a bad thing for WICB and NZC again and indeed every other board, who are over the moon with the deal they got. Just look at the statement of the boards themselves man. PCB thrilled to have the 4th largest revenue, SL excited to be cut in on the deal, I mean just why are they being thought of all fools who don't know they are being duped.

Also what do you mean that all boards getting more moeny is ludicrous statement. All the boards are getting more money. The boards themselves are telling you as much, its not me.

WICB says its revenue will double, NZC says they will get $70-100 mil when previously they got $52 mil. Is that not more money? In the previous cycle the associates pool had $184 mil now it will have $211 mil which is the largest ever.

There is not one board or pool, whose figures for the next 8 year cycle don't increase.

Somehow this is being painted as the end of cricket !! Ooooh all the boards will now earn more than they did in the previous 8 yr cycle, its the end of cricket surely !

Don't lsten to me, atleast listen to the board themselves, all of whom have gone on record to state higher earnings under Big Three. I mean what is this attitude whereby everyone is going, BCCI, ECB, ACB and ICC are all lying, WICB, NZC and every other board is also lying when they say they will get more money. Only we know it all.

That attitude is ludicrous.

 

[Satan666]

Anyone who argues that the ICC reforms have been a good thing is either not paying attention, or is wilfully misrepresenting the facts.

For the Big Three nations, it is a superb agreement (obviously) as they get all the power and all the money. Once they've got the English Premier League pushed through to go alongside the BBL and IPL, then you can expect windows to form in the international calendar where these teams don't really fancy playing because they've got their Premier Leagues on. It won't matter if the PSL, CPL, BPL, or any other two-letter-combination-L runs, because it will always be in the shadows behind one of those three tournaments or a new-style Champions League that can fill in the gaps.

The Little Seven get the rough end of the deal because they are forever beholden to the whims of the Big Three. For example, the South Africa-India tour a while back. India rocked up in SA and said "Ohai, btw we're not gonna play all those games, don't fancy boxing day, k thx bye x" and it was all okay. Haroon Lorgat reversed swiftly from the public eye, South Africa kept sending players to the IPL the world kept turning. The West Indies go to India, don't fancy playing ODIs they're not being paid for, and rather than stepping in and paying their players for them, the BCCI decides it quite likes the idea of erasing Windies cricket forever. They haven't decided yet, but they could press that button at any time.

The Non-Existent 100-odd don't get any end of the stick, because it's all been taken away. Ireland were told that they had new goalposts to aim for if they wanted to play Test cricket (further away than the old ones), a Qualifier was onto the front of a less-regular 10-team (officially 16-teams but who really believes that?) WT20, pushed through a 10-team World Cup and told the Associate nations to lump it or go home. The Affiliates, meanwhile, don't even have tournaments to play in any more, and the game is dying, sometimes dead already, as entire boards try to function on a budget that's less than Srikar Bharat's IPL salary.

I could keep going, keep making points, keep saying why this is corrupt and short-sighted and selfish and wrong in every conceivable way, but I need to go to sleep. Good night.

OMG thats scarey, could spell the end of international cricket as we know it.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

This is a long long topic..

 

[Satan666]

A Lot of posts in response, so I will try and fill in as many points in response as possible here.

I was not talking about TV Revenue only. ICC Revenue consists of more than just TV revenue. The extra point is also reduced costs, as the article I linked says there. One of the plans of increased revenue is that everyone gets more matches against the big three. Those are the money tours for everyone. So if there are more of these tours then the smaller sides earn more. Look at the SL example in the earlier post, where I quoted what each board has to say about the big three.

So consquently teams like SL, WI will get to play and host more matches against the big three. SL just hosted India, will host Aus and Eng soon alone giving them a revenue of $ 48 mil. Consider this in light of the fact that for the entire last 8 yr cycle SL got $52 mil as a share. From just three tours SL now earns that much. WI will host more games against the big three. Aus just toured there, India are to tour there next year and I am England will follow there soon.

I will once again post what the NZ board has to say about the Big Three. Its just perfect for the scenario where all kinds of things are being floated about how Big Three are duping the other boards.



If you don't want to trust the BCCI or ECB or ACB about the big three, can we all atleast listen to and trust the 7 boards for whom everyone is so concerned, when they say, hold on the Big Three is quite all right. NZC being one such board who say they get more matches with the 'Big Three', and around a 35% hike in revenue atleast from what we were getting in the previous cycle.

Also as I posted earlier WICB have gone on record to say that their revenue after the Big Three will Double !!

Now why is this a bad thing for WICB and NZC again and indeed every other board, who are over the moon with the deal they got. Just look at the statement of the boards themselves man. PCB thrilled to have the 4th largest revenue, SL excited to be cut in on the deal, I mean just why are they being thought of all fools who don't know they are being duped.

Also what do you mean that all boards getting more moeny is ludicrous statement. All the boards are getting more money. The boards themselves are telling you as much, its not me.

WICB says its revenue will double, NZC says they will get $70-100 mil when previously they got $52 mil. Is that not more money? In the previous cycle the associates pool had $184 mil now it will have $211 mil which is the largest ever.

There is not one board or pool, whose figures for the next 8 year cycle don't increase.

Somehow this is being painted as the end of cricket !! Ooooh all the boards will now earn more than they did in the previous 8 yr cycle, its the end of cricket surely !

Don't lsten to me, atleast listen to the board themselves, all of whom have gone on record to state higher earnings under Big Three. I mean what is this attitude whereby everyone is going, BCCI, ECB, ACB and ICC are all lying, WICB, NZC and every other board is also lying when they say they will get more money. Only we know it all.

That attitude is ludicrous.

Yeah I wont put it pass the WICB to give 'misinformation'.

Explain one thing how is it that obviously with the Big 3 takeover the BCCI received a bigger paycut, no economics student but doesnt this means that another board in international cricket is getting less revenue?

 

[IceAgeComing]

every other board is also lying

no they aren't; i know that Ireland and Scotland are not lying when they say that this deal is bad for them in terms of revenue.

You didn't bother to address any of my points, I was wondering if you fancied giving it a go?

 

[War]

@PokerAce Wow haha. I don't know where to start with this one, but I see other posters like @IceAgeComing etc have already began to rubbish most of your talk.

So in summary you comparing the former president of the WICB & former ICC President who by the way were not fired from their jobs in any way, as janitors and conspiracy theory talkers - instead of former officials who actually understand the inner workings of the board & ICC better than most fans, armchair experts and media that are speaking out on what they see because they have concerns about the games future? Did I understand your drivel correctly??

Secondly you have not seen the death of a gentleman video that journalists did, but right it off a conspiracy, shit - and that they are pushing an agenda

I have no reason to speak on behalf those journalist, but Sometimes I wonder if you are living under a rock. If you really believe an established media fraternity like cricinfo (who were the first to break the news about the ICC Big Three takeover) would allow one of their journalist to be part of a project that would risk their reputation is absolute nonsense. Cricinfo is not a tabloid.

These guys have actually met and spoken to the Srinivasan, Clarke and every big administrator in the WORLD CRICKET in their documentary film and every person who has seen movie whether fan or media has nothing but positive things to say about film - but you pokerarace wherever you are in the world sitting behind the confines of your computer, got the temerity to talk that nonsense without even seeing the film is unbelievable.

I presume you will also tell me now this recent cricinfo article research on how ICC HAS FAILED TO CURB CORRUPTION is an attempt at further conspiracy and the pushing of an agenda - Wisden - Hell in a handcart

Here what to do, go on twitter find Jarob Kimber and Sam Collins and tell them what you think about their video that you "never see" and argue that hogwash publicly with them and see where it takes you.

Overall as i mentioned before I have no intention to argue this with you cause you seem to believe people/those in the know (this was also done in documentary) have not seen what the boards said before and have no found holes or have outright rubbished their assertions 1 year ago when all this was first mentioned. The majority of the world cricket is already moving in a different tangent of trying to bring real change to the ICC - so you can carry on trying to find ways to defend the Big Three.

 

[PokerAce]

no they aren't; i know that Ireland and Scotland are not lying when they say that this deal is bad for them in terms of revenue.

You didn't bother to address any of my points, I was wondering if you fancied giving it a go?

FOr one accusing me of not addressing, "everything" I like how you totally ignored what NZC, PCB, WICB, have to say about the big three. Pot Kettle Black, much?



Okay so you say Cricket Ireland have said 'Big Three' is bad for them. I wonder then what Cricket Ireland CEO is talking about here -

Cricket Ireland CEO Warren Deutrom welcomes prospect of test cricket - Newstalk

WICB, NZC, PCB, SLC, all delighted with the deal and getting more money. So accept that fact and move on. The Big Three taking over world cricket and screwing the smaller test sides, lol, not based on what WICB, NZC, PCB, SLC are saying.

Ireland have also said they are satisfied as evidenced by the article. What are you going to tell me next ... Cricket board of no one has fking heard of are unhappy with the 'Big Three'.

Look I did not come here already with a pre-planned intention to defend ICC here. If they were doing something wrong I would be critical.

The Olympic thing for instance, I let it go cos I didn't feel it was a big three issue per se.
The Olympic thing was nonsense. Frankly I see no reason why T20 shouldn't be in the Olympics. As for the ECB, most of the test side doesn't even play T20, so I don't see why T20 and Tests can't happen side by side.

However we have to distinguish between ICC decisions and the big three agreement. The not going into olympics was part of normal day to day ICC functioning and I feel a terrible idea. However the discussion was about War posting that WICB will lose millions under the big three. The Olympics was no germane to that topic so I didn't address it.

When I hrd all the talk of it being the end of cricket and every other board apart from Big three being duped of millions in revenue, I was naturally worried. I was like if this 'Big Three' is so bad why is everyone, including boards who are supposedly going to get crushed by the 'Big Three' going for it?

So naturally i read what the boards have to say, have they been coerced, threatend, whats the deal here. When I read, the boards are over the friggin moon. WICB is saying its revenue will double, NZC are citing profits, SLC has good things to say about it, PCB is delighted with its revenue share.

There is just a lot of misunderstanding, I feel about the big three, and people just want to hate on the ICC for it, because the already unpopular BCCI is involved here so no one wants to listen to reason, people just wanna bash the whole idea. If the Big Three was so bad, the boards would not have ultimately signed on. Each board signed on, once they got a good deal. That in itself shows that they are not being duped.

I am telling you if tomorrow BCCI eradicated world poverty, people on this forum will find a way to be very upset about it, with War in alllikelihood posting a conspiracy theory about how its all a plot to have the world taken over and given to aliens or something.

For all the ICC hating that is going here, I will just listen to the cricket boards, who clearly know more about the deal that I do or anyone on this board does and as long as they are telling me they are okay with it, I got no issue. It doesn't have to be all of them, even if most of them seem happy I got no issues. You can't please everyone all the time.

 

[PokerAce]

@War I was waiting on when I will more drivel to read from you.

Its actually good to see you holding onto the 'look others also disagree' crutch. When tht happens in a discussion you know you are doing well.

Death of a Gentleman, did you work on it? Just curious. Okay so you saw a fking documentary, do you want the Nobel Prize for that? Are you actually so fking naive to be completely ignorant of the fact that a propaganda driven documentary that sets out to bash the ICC from the outset, would find a way to bash ICC, and paint a negative picture regardless of what the people who were interviewed had to say?

Now since you have nothing more to add, or counter the fact that NZC and PCB and SLC and WICB are actually happy with the deal, and not being duped of millions as you and people who did that Documentary want everyone to believe, you go completely off topic and talk about Corruption !!

If ICC has failed to control corruption then naturally that is something I will not defend. I don't defend the ICC on everything, and I have criticized the ICC on many things. 10 nation WC being one of them, Corrpution naturally, failure to do something about meaningless bilateral ODI tours another. I am not a sweeping irrational like you, who feels the need to criticise ICC on everything. As I said, earlier If ICC tomorrow got rid of world hunger or poverty, you will find a way to be terribly upset about it. We both know it.

However in suddenly jumping to 'corruption' you are dodging the issue. So I will bring you back to the point. The start of this was that you posted that under the big three boards like WICB will lose revenue. Naturally I don't want WICB or any board to be duped of millions, so I looked up why the WICB would take this highly unfavorable 'big three' deal to begin with. Then I find an official WICB statement that says far from losing money, WICB expect their revenue to double under the big three. So its no wonder they took the deal.

Then I read up what the other boards have to say and they all said, NZC, PCB, SLC, that they are actually happy with the big three deal, and the revenue increase. I make a post quoting each of those boards, to tell you that hey look, actually the doomsday scenario predictors are wrong, the boards themselves say they are making more money.

That really should have been the end of this discussion. An official WICB statement that says they are actually going to get double revenues, and not lose money.

But no, you saw a fking documentary, which in your head supersedes an official statement from a cricket board. How hard is to understand that at any place that means something (like say in a court) an official release from a Board would be a much more credible source of information than some documentary. The reason is that lying on an official statement about the finances of your body, be it a company or a board and releasing it to the public putting them in a position to misled, or putting say sponsors in a position to be misled, etc. would attract penalty. Whereas you can make up a documentary about any-fking-thing you want. You can make a documentary on how Elvis is still alive and living on the Moon fking aliens for fun.

So to keep this hate group going, you totally ignore this official statement, so that it doesn't get in the way of all the hating and ICC bashing you have got going on here. Well Done

Then what do you do is resort to what a 10 yr old kid does and tell me, hey look others don't agree with you. So the point is are you going to wake up to the fact that the boards themselves are telling you that the Big Three is alright, they will earn more money, or are you going to keep up the childish nonsense.

If you are so concerned about the boards like WICB losing money, then just listen to the WICB itself, who will tell you (if you wanted to listen, but clearly don't want to) that they are not losing money. Far from losing money they will make double what they did the last cycle.


Will you listen though, sadly we both know you won't.

 

[PokerAce]

@War, look most of the discussions we have invariably slip into unpleasantness sooner or later. So lets agree to disagree. You think world cricket is ending, gl with that. As for me, when the boards themselves say that this Big Three thing they have done, which they are presently saying is great, regardless of what documentary makers of the world may have to say, is leading to losses for them, that is when I will say it was a bad idea.

 

[Satan666]

Guys this PokerAce dude will go around in cricles making zero sense and bypassing all facts. The best thing he did was to put me on ignore, arguments with him never find an end or common ground.

 

[grkrama]

Big three is bad for various reasons but finance n revenue sharing of the various boards is not one of them. All boards are driven by money so in the next 8 years if they weren't getting a fair share they wouldn't have agreed its as simple as that.


But the BIg three is bad for many other stuff and health of cricket, its never a good thing to let a few have monopoly on power.

Its more of decision making and FTP that big three affects other boards drastically by playing too much against each other.

Instead of collective vision, it will be a narrow one when three are calling it.

Guys this PokerAce dude will go around in cricles making zero sense and bypassing all facts. The best thing he did was to put me on ignore, arguments with him never find an end or common ground.

Hey Zorro thanks for the warning sticking it in huh with one liners

though i would say if pokerace is Batman of PC , you are The Joker ....

The Joker: Uhh, you…you just couldn't let me go, could you? This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. You truly are incorruptible, aren't you? Huh? You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of self-righteousness…and I won't kill you because you're just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

 

[PokerAce]

Big three is bad for various reasons but finance n revenue sharing of the various boards is not one of them. All boards are driven by money so in the next 8 years if they weren't getting a fair share they wouldn't have agreed its as simple as that.


But the BIg three is bad for many other stuff and health of cricket, its never a good thing to let a few have monopoly on power.

Its more of decision making and FTP that big three affects other boards drastically by playing too much against each other.

Instead of collective vision, it will be a narrow one when three are calling it.

Hey Zorro thanks for the warning sticking it in huh with one liners

though i would say if pokerace is Batman of PC , you are The Joker ....

The Joker: Uhh, you…you just couldn't let me go, could you? This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object. You truly are incorruptible, aren't you? Huh? You won't kill me out of some misplaced sense of self-righteousness…and I won't kill you because you're just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever.

Actually yeah. One of the things that should change is Big Three hogging all the tournaments, as is the case in this cycle. However that is so obviously going to change the next cycle its something i have not considered worth posting about so far.

and LoL Who is the Zorro guy?

 

[grkrama]

Who

Touchy007

 

[grkrama]

Also regarding DOAG film I haven't watched it, but have followed a couple of long interviews by Kimber and sam the points they raise are pretty relevant especially about fans voicing their opinion out,
Which I feel is the key, even for their oval protest hardly 50people turned up! As long as they can get away with it all these administrator's are going to watch out only to milk the fans of money, as boring as it is jk & sam want the common fan to take interest in cricket administration stuff and call them out vocally for the good of the game