Jan 3-7: 5th Test: Australia v England at Sydney

[StinkyBoHoon]

with swann I totally admit, it is just a speculative opinion, it's just a hunch I have watching. he's done his best against the windies and pakistan, he's been nothing special in most of the matches he's played against decent opposition. I do emphasise special, not rubbish, he's alright. his litmus test will be when india come of course, would you prepare spinning tracks for them?


I don't think KPs been that great here? really? a double ton on a 620/5d track? definitely not the best english batsman in the team this series anyway. he also managed to contribute the least amount of runs he's ever managed in one of the other matches. I don't think he's anything wonderful, not for a 30 year old that should be in his prime right now. Certainly not in league with guys mentioned. Muralitharan, lara, tendulkar, kallis, ponting. if you want to say KP is as good as tendulkar and lara, I dare you to just write that, bare bones without pages of stats and see what the reaction is.

 

[War]

with swann I totally admit, it is just a speculative opinion, it's just a hunch I have watching. he's done his best against the windies and pakistan, he's been nothing special in most of the matches he's played against decent opposition. I do emphasise special, not rubbish, he's alright. his litmus test will be when india come of course, would you prepare spinning tracks for them?

Did you see what he did in S Africa last winter?. Very good series that.

Yes definately vs IND even SRI in the upcoming IND summer will be his litmus test. But given id expect ENG to prepare seamer friendly decks to support its quality 3 prong pace attack to aid them in beating IND especially, Swann workload inadvertendly vs them will be limited.

I don't think KPs been that great here? really? a double ton on a 620/5d track? definitely not the best english batsman in the team this series anyway. he also managed to contribute the least amount of runs he's ever managed in one of the other matches. I don't think he's anything wonderful, not for a 30 year old that should be in his prime right now. Certainly not in league with guys mentioned. Muralitharan, lara, tendulkar, kallis, ponting. if you want to say KP is as good as tendulkar and lara, I dare you to just write that, bare bones without pages of stats and see what the reaction is.

Whats different to 226 he scores in this series compared to the 158 he scored @ the same venue in a similar big score in Ashes 06/07?.

Sure he hasn't been as dominant as Cook for example, but the AUS bowlers definately where always more about him when he came to crease regardless of how much runs Cook scored, thats for sure.

He certainly is heading into his prime. As i said before. When KP was on fire between 2005-2009 before he lost his captaincy, eveyone was calling him a great on levell very close to Tendy & Lara & was good enough for all these pundits to rate him so quickly to be in a England All-time XI: All-time XI | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

His lat 18 months for reasons i already mentioned killed that & now he is back. So IMO once KP continues to build on what he did in this Ashes & get anywhere close to his 2005-2009 form again, people will be talking about him on the same level as Ponting, Lara, Tendy, Kallis by the time he retires.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

@Stinky - Shane Warne has repeatedly called Swann the best spinner in the world - I reckon he might know a bit more about spin bowling than you.

 

[Lee1981]

Swann has very rarely bowled in a situation where we were reliant on him to get our wickets, the seamers have done so well he really has only been needed to tie an end down, and i think he has bowled well and maybe not got the wickets his efforts deserve.
Dont get me wrong he would be the first to say he hasn't done as good as he expected, but he has made a solid contribution to another ashes win.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

Swann has very rarely bowled in a situation where we were reliant on him to get our wickets, the seamers have done so well he really has only been needed to tie an end down, and i think he has bowled well and maybe not got the wickets his efforts deserve.
Dont get me wrong he would be the first to say he hasn't done as good as he expected, but he has made a solid contribution to another ashes win.

It's fair to say he hasn't had his best ever series - but to say he'll struggle against quality opposition is nonsensical - especially given his series in South Africa.

 

[pcfan123]

I don't care if Smith makes 100 tomorrow, he is no Test match cricketer.

 

[Dare]

He certainly is heading into his prime. As i said before. When KP was on fire between 2005-2009 before he lost his captaincy, eveyone was calling him a great on levell very close to Tendy & Lara & was good enough for all these pundits to rate him so quickly to be in a England All-time XI: All-time XI | Cricinfo Magazine | ESPN Cricinfo

His lat 18 months for reasons i already mentioned killed that & now he is back. So IMO once KP continues to build on what he did in this Ashes & get anywhere close to his 2005-2009 form again, people will be talking about him on the same level as Ponting, Lara, Tendy, Kallis by the time he retires.

hahahah KP on the same level as Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar and Kallis? Get a hold of your self man. That is just fan talk.
Dont make any excuses, he isn't the first guy to have some adversity come his way.
I remember King_Pietersen saying that KP will finish the year with a 50+ average when England came to the Caribbean last time and he ended up flopping big time that year.
KP is good but nowhere near those 4 guys, he might be the closest thing England have to him now and maybe you are saying that English fans will talk about him like he is as good as those guys but in reality he isn't even close.

He is on the level of Laxman, Chanderpaul, Hussey, Smith, Sehwag when compared to today's batsman.

@Stinky - Shane Warne has repeatedly called Swann the best spinner in the world - I reckon he might know a bit more about spin bowling than you.

What competition does he have? Harbhajan? He has been out of form and bowling on those ████ Indian wickets.
Its not hard to be the best when there is no competition.

 

[pcfan123]

I don't think KPs been that great here? really? a double ton on a 620/5d track? definitely not the best english batsman in the team this series anyway. he also managed to contribute the least amount of runs he's ever managed in one of the other matches. I don't think he's anything wonderful, not for a 30 year old that should be in his prime right now. Certainly not in league with guys mentioned. Muralitharan, lara, tendulkar, kallis, ponting. if you want to say KP is as good as tendulkar and lara, I dare you to just write that, bare bones without pages of stats and see what the reaction is.

I agree wholeheartedly. Just because he scored that one 200, people seem to forget his 18 match drought and are willing to excuse the upcoming drought.

Also he is no spring chicken, I'd back Cook to end up with better career stats than KP, in fact I'd bet KP finishes his career with an average between 40-45

 

[MasterBlaster76]

What competition does he have? Harbhajan? He has been out of form and bowling on those ████ Indian wickets.
Its not hard to be the best when there is no competition.

Would they be the same Indian wickets that cater for spinners?

Swann is class - he's proven it against the Aussies, against South Africa and he'll continue to prove it against other nations. Remember, it's a master of spin proclaiming him as the world's best, not me.

Regarding KP, when he fires there's no-one to match him, but he simply isn't consistent enough - he blows hot and cold.

 

[StinkyBoHoon]

@Stinky - Shane Warne has repeatedly called Swann the best spinner in the world - I reckon he might know a bit more about spin bowling than you.

so that means yusuf pathan is holder of the best ever innings played in cricket.?

 

[Lee1981]

so that means yusuf pathan is holder of the best ever innings played in cricket.?

gota say this one has gone way over my head.

 

[MasterBlaster76]

so that means yusuf pathan is holder of the best ever innings played in cricket.?

You what?

 

[Dare]

Would they be the same Indian wickets that cater for spinners?

No they are the Indian wickets that cater to batsman and nobody else.

Swann is class - he's proven it against the Aussies, against South Africa and he'll continue to prove it against other nations. Remember, it's a master of spin proclaiming him as the world's best, not me.

I never said he wasn't class, get it together.

All I said that Warne isn't stepping out on a limb here. He is pointing out the obvious.

 

[War]

hahahah KP on the same level as Ponting, Lara, Tendulkar and Kallis? Get a hold of your self man. That is just fan talk.
Dont make any excuses, he isn't the first guy to have some adversity come his way.
I remember King_Pietersen saying that KP will finish the year with a 50+ average when England came to the Caribbean last time and he ended up flopping big time that year.
KP is good but nowhere near those 4 guys, he might be the closest thing England have to him now and maybe you are saying that English fans will talk about him like he is as good as those guys but in reality he isn't even close.

He is on the level of Laxman, Chanderpaul, Hussey, Smith, Sehwag when compared to today's batsman.

Where did i say anywhere in that thread that KP was on the same level as Ponting, Tendy, Lara, Kallis or Ponting currently???.

I said quite clearly that if he reaches back his form of 2005-2009 before he lost his captaincy & builds onthat, given his return to form given his last 18 months of struggles. BY THE END OF HIS CAREER IMO he could be rated on the same level as those guys.

Also im not making any excuses for KPs failures or adversities which clearly made him struggled for runs in the last 18 months.

KP adversity was very similar to tennis elbow woes Tendulkar had between 2002-2007 which made him decline as batsmen untul his revivall of the last 3 years.

Along with the problems Lara had between 98-2001 with the captaincy issues & him leaving cricket in 1999 along with the eye problem which had him batting with shades in England 2000.

Those things seriously affected those two & they came back from it. KP is in the first stages of coming back from his adversity as well.

 

[pcfan123]

gota say this one has gone way over my head.

Shane Warne also thinks Yusuf Pathan slogging domestic Indian trundlers in the IPL was the best batting innings he's seen.

In short, Warne's opinion is meaningless, because it's simply a rehash of the views of the people who pay him.