Umair7
El Presidente
All Time 12 is useless! Steyn/Wasim/Waqar/McGrath etc you can't pick all of them
AR is the only position where Kallis or Sobers are the obvious choice for other positions it's about who you watched! who you like
All Time 12 is useless! Steyn/Wasim/Waqar/McGrath etc you can't pick all of them
AR is the only position where Kallis or Sobers are the obvious choice for other positions it's about who you watched! who you like
RUDI
Administrator
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Statistically players like Amla, De Kock and De Villiers are right up with the best of the older era. Amla & De Villiers averaging above 50 in both ODI and Test cricket. De Kock becoming the youngest player to get 10 x 100s in ODI cricket (don't quote me, I'm going on memory) We are definitely not short on talent. Not to mention Williamson, Starc, Rabada, Root, Kohli and guys like Al Hasan.
Personally I doubt that any of the current generation batsman will go on to match Tendulkar's 50+ Test 100's or Kallis and Pontings 40+ hundreds, nor will any of the current generation bowlers match 800+ Test wickets . Mainly because the current generations hectic schedule's.
It's difficult to compare older generation players with new generation players, the game has definitely changed alot over the past decades.
Personally I doubt that any of the current generation batsman will go on to match Tendulkar's 50+ Test 100's or Kallis and Pontings 40+ hundreds, nor will any of the current generation bowlers match 800+ Test wickets . Mainly because the current generations hectic schedule's.
It's difficult to compare older generation players with new generation players, the game has definitely changed alot over the past decades.
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Satan666
Guest
None wouldve watched Don or Hobbs but they still make it into 99% of the all time lists.All Time 12 is useless! Steyn/Wasim/Waqar/McGrath etc you can't pick all of them
AR is the only position where Kallis or Sobers are the obvious choice for other positions it's about who you watched! who you like
I dont like Warne but there is no denying him a legend and probably never gonna be another player like him.
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Satan666
Guest
Starc and Rabadda are indeed talented but too early to tell, havent played enough games.
The argument cant be based solely and talent! We can say Carl Hooper was full of talent but he never ascended to the ranks of Kallis or Sobers. A 1000 cricketers can be talented playing but they are not SPECIAL, Steyn stands heads and shoulders above the rest! This is the point I am getting at the era has no Warne or Lara, these guys became known in their earlier days also, Lara scored an impressive 277 at SCG and didnt even make 10 tests as yet whereas Ponting grew into legend status as his career picked up.
Till Valhalla
BCCI President
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You are countering yourself there.
You are saying it's too early for Starc and Rabada yet saying there are no guys in this era who stood out in their early days.
The thread title says "Present era low on Talent" , yet here you are saying the argument can't be based solely on Talent.
Are you trying to run us in circles?
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Satan666
Guest
You are countering yourself there.
You are saying it's too early for Starc and Rabada yet saying there are no guys in this era who stood out in their early days.
The thread title says "Present era low on Talent" , yet here you are saying the argument can't be based solely on Talent.
Are you trying to run us in circles?
Nope certainly am not, thats why in my last post I mentioned Lara made 277 before reaching 10 tests and Ponting growing into legendary status after playing a considerable amount of cricket.
Edit: made that point in the same post you quoted. I brought up Lara and Warne being standouts early cause Author decided to list a 1000 cricketers, some of which have not even played more than 5 test matches as a supposedly counter argument.
Not sure the reason why I should specify the degree of talent really, so take it however you chose to misinterpret it. Would you place Rabada in an all time test 11 now based on his talent as of now or probably in the next 10 years when his talent has proven itself to be nothing but average like Amla!
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Aislabie
Test Cricket is Best Cricket
This is my all-time twelve players. If you need the justification as to why, click here and here.
Jack Hobbs Ranjitsinhji Don Bradman Denis Compton Sachin Tendulkar Clyde Walcott Garfield Sobers Fred Trueman Sydney Barnes Dale Steyn Dainty Ironmonger George Lohmann (12th man)They are the players who, over a sustained peak in their careers, proved themselves to be head and shoulders above their contemporaries. There are names there who often do not make people's subjective lists (Ranji, Compton, Walcott, Trueman and Ironmonger being up there) but there can never be a perfect all-time best twelve players. It's simply an impossibility; there are too many players to choose from. Subjectively, for example, I don't consider Tendulkar to be anywhere near my all-time top twelve players, but statistically he ought to be there, so he is. It's the only fair way of doing this.
My entirely subjective eleven would look more like this:
Matthew Hayden Virender Sehwag Don Bradman Stan McCabe Viv Richards Jacques Kallis Imran Khan Wasim Akram Bob Taylor Muttiah Muralitharan Glenn McGrath Aubrey Faulkner (12th man)There are players missing, as always, and it's picked to play on the conditions you would find at my nearest Test cricket ground which has a reputation for being one of the quickest surfaces in England.
I did, as it turns out: Dale Steyn. Currently, Jadeja also challenges Ironmonger's place as a spinner, because of how far above his contemporaries he is statistically. Steven Smith also could work his way into such a team if he continues to improve so.
Well, I specified that I had selected players I see as hugely talented, including those who for whatever reason have had little or no impact on Test cricket thus far.
I did so because your complaint is "present era low on talent" which to me seems like something which can be based solely on talent.
If you're looking for players who made a particular impact early, then from the prior list I must proffer the following:
Rashid Khan Patrick Cummins Alastair Cook Joe Root Kane Williamson Mohammad Amir Quinton de Kock Kagiso RabadaIf your issue is that these players aren't on the same level as a Warne or a Ponting or a Tendulkar, then of course they're bloody not! You've just picked players who were at the end of their careers and also the peak of their powers when we were growing up. Aside from Cook, I would argue that none of this crop have even got close to the peak of their powers yet.
It's also worth noting that I've not included either Steven Smith or Virat Kohli on that list. Smith made his first Test ton aged 24, Kohli at 23 - neither of which is an age associated with the kind of players you're describing. Clearly, early Tendulkar-aged performances aren't the sole barometer of a great cricketer.
Finally, I'm genuinely offended that you have thrown out the accusation that "this era is low on talent" then disregarded my list of this era's most talented cricketers because it is too long. It is long because we are in an era rich in talent, even if that talent is sometimes over-coached or over-injured in our current era.
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Satan666
Guest
I can see where the title may be quite misleading but my opening post shouldve conveyed my thoughts clearly, as the others posting on this thread alluded to.This is my all-time twelve players. If you need the justification as to why, click here and here.
They are the players who, over a sustained peak in their careers, proved themselves to be head and shoulders above their contemporaries. There are names there who often do not make people's subjective lists (Ranji, Compton, Walcott, Trueman and Ironmonger being up there) but there can never be a perfect all-time best twelve players. It's simply an impossibility; there are too many players to choose from. Subjectively, for example, I don't consider Tendulkar to be anywhere near my all-time top twelve players, but statistically he ought to be there, so he is. It's the only fair way of doing this.
My entirely subjective eleven would look more like this:
There are players missing, as always, and it's picked to play on the conditions you would find at my nearest Test cricket ground which has a reputation for being one of the quickest surfaces in England.
I did, as it turns out: Dale Steyn. Currently, Jadeja also challenges Ironmonger's place as a spinner, because of how far above his contemporaries he is statistically. Steven Smith also could work his way into such a team if he continues to improve so.
Well, I specified that I had selected players I see as hugely talented, including those who for whatever reason have had little or no impact on Test cricket thus far.
I did so because your complaint is "present era low on talent" which to me seems like something which can be based solely on talent.
If you're looking for players who made a particular impact early, then from the prior list I must proffer the following:
If your issue is that these players aren't on the same level as a Warne or a Ponting or a Tendulkar, then of course they're bloody not! You've just picked players who were at the end of their careers and also the peak of their powers when we were growing up. Aside from Cook, I would argue that none of this crop have even got close to the peak of their powers yet.
It's also worth noting that I've not included either Steven Smith or Virat Kohli on that list. Smith made his first Test ton aged 24, Kohli at 23 - neither of which is an age associated with the kind of players you're describing. Clearly, early Tendulkar-aged performances aren't the sole barometer of a great cricketer.
Finally, I'm genuinely offended that you have thrown out the accusation that "this era is low on talent" then disregarded my list of this era's most talented cricketers because it is too long. It is long because we are in an era rich in talent, even if that talent is sometimes over-coached or over-injured in our current era.
Thanks for your input.
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Satan666
Guest
Yeah I just cant see a Tendulkar, Lara, Viv, Hobbs, Larwood, Sobers, wasim or Gilchrist playing today...........only Steyn can be mentioned with those guys. Sorry for offending but this is my view and unless someone can prove otherwise I'll stand by itThis is my all-time twelve players. If you need the justification as to why, click here and here.
They are the players who, over a sustained peak in their careers, proved themselves to be head and shoulders above their contemporaries. There are names there who often do not make people's subjective lists (Ranji, Compton, Walcott, Trueman and Ironmonger being up there) but there can never be a perfect all-time best twelve players. It's simply an impossibility; there are too many players to choose from. Subjectively, for example, I don't consider Tendulkar to be anywhere near my all-time top twelve players, but statistically he ought to be there, so he is. It's the only fair way of doing this.
My entirely subjective eleven would look more like this:
There are players missing, as always, and it's picked to play on the conditions you would find at my nearest Test cricket ground which has a reputation for being one of the quickest surfaces in England.
I did, as it turns out: Dale Steyn. Currently, Jadeja also challenges Ironmonger's place as a spinner, because of how far above his contemporaries he is statistically. Steven Smith also could work his way into such a team if he continues to improve so.
Well, I specified that I had selected players I see as hugely talented, including those who for whatever reason have had little or no impact on Test cricket thus far.
I did so because your complaint is "present era low on talent" which to me seems like something which can be based solely on talent.
If you're looking for players who made a particular impact early, then from the prior list I must proffer the following:
If your issue is that these players aren't on the same level as a Warne or a Ponting or a Tendulkar, then of course they're bloody not! You've just picked players who were at the end of their careers and also the peak of their powers when we were growing up. Aside from Cook, I would argue that none of this crop have even got close to the peak of their powers yet.
It's also worth noting that I've not included either Steven Smith or Virat Kohli on that list. Smith made his first Test ton aged 24, Kohli at 23 - neither of which is an age associated with the kind of players you're describing. Clearly, early Tendulkar-aged performances aren't the sole barometer of a great cricketer.
Finally, I'm genuinely offended that you have thrown out the accusation that "this era is low on talent" then disregarded my list of this era's most talented cricketers because it is too long. It is long because we are in an era rich in talent, even if that talent is sometimes over-coached or over-injured in our current era.
CerealKiller
Staff Member
That's because the best cricketers in the world right now are still establishing themselves. There aren't too many players who we can already call legends, not because there is no talent, but because most talented players haven't played long enough to be called legends.
The only players i would consider legends are AB, Steyn and Younis Khan, perhaps Amla. And if i have to be a bit biased, Misbah.
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Satan666
Guest
This I agree with hence I am not safe in mentioning Starc or Root, both guys I beleive will be remembered for a long time. Kholi is probably the best batsman playing today but Root to me has all the makings of a legend of the game, as you said though a bit too early to call it.
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Satan666
Guest
Just to be clear to everyone didnt open this thread to troll and step on toes, its my normal style but not here. Also I generate my thoughts almost solely on test cricket and some ODI. T20 in my pattern of thoughts is not genuine cricket so I'll never hold someone as Chris Gayle in esteem of a cricketer.
zwarrior
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Shakib is one of the best all rounders cricket has seen. And he is achieving this in one of the not so great team. ( Not trying to offend Bangladesh) He still has a lot to offer and has a long way to go. But his name should be right up there along with likes of Steyn, ABD, Kohli, Smith and so on...
Till Valhalla
BCCI President
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Starc will be definitely in it, So does Root, Smith and Williamson. I have not seen Rabada play hence he might not make it in my XI.
My XI would mostly contain players I have seen play.
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Satan666
Guest
Fair enough dude.
