South Africa's tour of India - October/December 2015

[SaiSrini]

I have never seen Saha as an international wicket keeper because he is just not good enough. He is supposed to be the best keeper in the country but his keeping sucks. Whever I have watched him, he is either dropping a catch or missing a stumping. His batting is no where near international level. Then again, who are the options for India in keeping department? I know Ojha is there but he is even older than Saha. Is there any young keeper out there performing in Ranji trophy? I don't think Sanju Samson is quite ready yet for International cricket. I have heard name of Uday Kaul but he doesn't look too convincing. We are really lacking a good keeper right now, even a decent keeper.

Saha is a bad keeper? When did that happen? Did you watch him just when he had a dropped catch or what? Saha is a very reliable keeper. In fact, Dhoni was a safe keeper, but Saha is a lot more agile and athletic than Dhoni. Its his batting which makes all the questioning valid against him. But again, Saha is a very classical batsman. And he has lived in the shadows of MSD for too long that now when he is getting the chance, he is nervous about making it count so that no one else stakes claim. He has had a few valuable innings under his belt recently and given more exposure, he should flourish.

And what's with this "young keeper" thing? Anyone above 30 should immediately be put in the dustbin? Give Ojha and Saha their chances. MSD ensured that no one else could be tried. Now that he is retired, lets try out these guys. Age is not a barrier. If Saha and/or Ojha can serve India for another 4-5 years, Samson can come in next and take us forward.

Where does Denesh Karthik rate these days?

His keeping is way below average. And even in batting, he is more suited towards T20 format where cheeky batting style works well in getting some tiny runs here and there, esp. in pressure situations. He is not a long term option at all.

I really don't think we need to play 5 bowlers in India. Outside of India, 5 bowlers is needed. However when you have turning pitches like the Mohali pitch, Kohli should have just had Ashwin, Jadeja, Mishra, and either Aaron or Yadav. He could have had KL Rahul or Rohit Sharma play with a 4 bowler attack.

If you get a road of a pitch in India (which is more likely in the 2nd test, considering Bangalore is the venue), you will need 5 bowlers to force through the wickets. The only time you wont need 5 bowlers is when the wicket is extremely bowler friendly (either a green top or a rank turner). Mohali wasn't a real rank turner. It was a turning pitch with variable bounce. Just that both sides mentally did not adjust to the wicket at all and gave cheap wickets to the spinners.

 

[War]

A few observations. The assertion you made that it was a great turning pitch, is overstating things. There was not one wicket lost to the ball suddenly jumping off a good length and hitting the gloves, not one wicket lost to a ball keeping low. People if anything kept playing for the turn which wasn't there, and either edged straight deliveries or left balls alone expecting turn which then crashed into the their stumps (Amla, Du Plesis), or just playing rash shots, like Mishra or Steyn.

Of course pitches in India help spinners but the help this gave was par for for the course. If this spin was too much then I think that SA will really go down hard on a pitch that offers real spin.

Pretty sure I didn't call it a "great turning pitch".

 

[War]

What, you are not in England or SA ? England prepare pitch which supports their pace bowling and conditions and Win. Aussies does same. NZ does same.
I would expect everyone to compete with us on turning picth as everyone expects us on a green Pitch.

Let's criticize everything that involves india. See they won, let's criticize their home condition.

Ha, I'm struggling to understand how you read my reference to IND in that post and interpreted it in any way critical to come up with this response.

 

[Aalay]

Saha is a bad keeper?

Yes

When did that happen?

Since he made his debut

Did you watch him just when he had a dropped catch or what?

No, I have watched him since he made his debut for India

Saha is a very reliable keeper.

No, he is not.

But again, Saha is a very classical batsman.

Never looks like one

he is nervous about making it count so that no one else stakes claim.

Nervousness can be there in the first match or first series, he looks nervous every single time he has walked out on the field.

He has had a few valuable innings under his belt recently

When?

And what's with this "young keeper" thing? Anyone above 30 should immediately be put in the dustbin? Give Ojha and Saha their chances. MSD ensured that no one else could be tried. Now that he is retired, lets try out these guys. Age is not a barrier. If Saha and/or Ojha can serve India for another 4-5 years, Samson can come in next and take us forward..

When did I say you should put them in the dustbin? If you have a keeper at 22 who is equally good enough as the keeper at 32, who would you choose? As I said in my last post, Sanju Samson is not ready yet for International cricket but I am sure he will be in couple of years. So we can have anyone until then but once he is ready, he would be my first choice.

 

[zwarrior]

Uthappa can be considered for a new wicket-keeper. I know he is not a regular wicket-keeper, but if you consider Rahul to act as a keeper, then Uthappa can be a much better choice. I think Rahul should focus only on batting and nothing else. Uthappa has been doing well in Ranji. Many people consider him only as a T20 batsmen, but he is a very good player in long format too. He will play with patience, not just smash every ball. To be fair, Saha is performing very poorly. I feel Ojha is better than Saha and India should try him out instead.

 

[PokerAce]

Pretty sure I didn't call it a "great turning pitch".

Yeah more like "real turning IND pitch", which implied that the pitch was a real spin friendly wicket, which it wasn't. So to repost, since we are being fussy about 'exact words' -

The assertion you made that it was a great turning pitch "real turning IND pitch" is overstating things. There was not one wicket lost to the ball suddenly jumping off a good length and hitting the gloves, not one wicket lost to a ball keeping low. People if anything kept playing for the turn which wasn't there, and either edged straight deliveries or left balls alone expecting turn which then crashed into the their stumps (Amla, Du Plesis), or just playing rash shots, like Mishra or Steyn.

 

[PokerAce]

BCCI cracks the whip on conflict of interest - Cricbuzz

So does that mean that Stuart Binny has gotten his last India Cap?

 

[PokerAce]

Rahane gets Grade A contract; Raina, Bhuvneshwar moved to Grade B - Cricbuzz

Grade A: MS Dhoni, Virat Kohli, R Ashwin, Ajinkya Rahane
Grade B: Suresh Raina, Ambati Rayudu, Rohit Sharma, Murali Vijay, Shikhar Dhawan, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Umesh Yadav, Ishant Sharma, Cheteshwar Pujara, Mohammad Shami.
Grade C: Amit Mishra, Axar Patel, Stuart Binny, Wriddhiman Saha, Mohit Sharma, Varun Aaron, Karn Sharma, Ravindra Jadeja, KL Rahul, Dhawal Kulkarni, Harbhajan Singh, S Arvind.
Out: Pragyan Ojha, Pankaj Singh, Vinay Kumar, Parvez Rasool, Manoj Tiwary, Robin Uthappa, Sanju Samson, Kuldeep Yadav

 

[Aravind.]

A well deserved promotion for Ajinkya...

 

[greymatter776]

Ajinkya deserved it and depromotion of Raina is interesting too.A simple but strong statement made:If you play well you get a good contract.

 

[namin96]

What, you are not in England or SA ? England prepare pitch which supports their pace bowling and conditions and Win. Aussies does same. NZ does same.
I would expect everyone to compete with us on turning picth as everyone expects us on a green Pitch.

Let's criticize everything that involves india. See they won, let's criticize their home condition.

Kohli had a great point when he said no one blames the pitch when we are playing abroad and perform poorly.

 

[namin96]

It really doesn't matter what pitch types they play on.. they're all professionals! In this particular match just about all the spinners got wickets.. most of the wickets! As a professional player with the backup of coaching and technical staff you need to adapt.. whether it be on slower, flatter pitches or on bouncy hard pitches.. All seam bowlers will have an advantage on green or hard pitch, spin bowlers on flat dusty pitches ..they still need to do the basics right in order to get wickets. As for batting.. discipline, concentration, endurance and plain hard work with pure determination ; always pays off.. That's why they call it TEST cricket!

Let's hope the bangalore pitch is similar to the mohali one even though it won't be.

 

[namin96]

I think it wasn't a bad test match at all because I love to see bowlers dominating rather batsmen just hammering and ending up in a very boring way to make it a draw. But thing is India should focus on creating 5-day tracks, or I guess Sachin-Dravid's era was the last in Indian cricket's history to have an order of spin specialists. It's funny how Indian batsmen fell against SA's flabby spin attack on their very own pitch. I believe the pitch was totally bad though. But considering that the same Indian lineup fell against amateur Moin Khan in couple of matches last year in England, and how only Vijay and Pujara can stand longer and others don't when pitch is turning, I had to think that. Only Tahir is the best bowler SA now has for this series and he is not really surrounded by a quality assisting unit. If India continues to produce extremely turning conditions, not only it will continue to be the 3 days match but also that will help SA to get extra training sessions and that could really help them to come back stronger after the second test match or hopefully in the second test match. As the winning margin wasn't as wide as expected, India should try building pitches that could assist both their bowlers and batsmen so they can score better and wide, and that would also decrease some pressure on bowlers which could also help them think better to bowl better even if the conditions are not totally with them as in Mohali. As Hashim Amla thinks if the target was around 160 they could have found it easier, I think they can hope to achieve a win or two in upcoming test matches if India still insist to prepare pitches like Mohali. It is a big concern for India's team management. The tournament is long, SA have already few experienced batsmen for Indian conditions and if JP Duminy is picked then SA will be helped with an exra batting and bowling option as well.

Also Ishant Sharma's ban is lifted and he's ready to play in next games so I think Varun Aaron should be dropped and not Umesh Yadav as we hope to see Ishant making comeback. Aaron was never a good choice for India except they are playing outside the sub-continent. Something that helps him stick in the test side is that he's got the pace. But only the pace would not allow him to pick wickets in these conditions because the opposition are actually masters of playing against pace. And when he hasn't got the swing, the line, the length and the momentum, he will be just hammered again and again. If India can't rely on Umesh Yadav, they must go for Bhuvneshwar Kumar who could trouble the batsmen in earlier overs and who could also reverse swing a little bit.

Bhuvi has ruined his bowling. He has added pace and we saw how bad he is now during the mumbai odi. Consistently banging the ball in even though the kid is not even close to 6 feet tall. How can you expect to trouble the batsman when your deliveries are coming up only waist high. His strength is swing and he needs to go back to it.

 

[namin96]

Well for starters Tendulkar Dravid is another League. Even Ganguly was a great player of spin. He had issues with pace, but Ganguly was a genius at playing spin, and Laxman again was in a class of his own. Then there was Sehwag who was see ball hit ball, and spin or pace held no meaning to him.

You cant compare this generation to previous one, which was in a league of its own.

That point apart, you have to remember that the same batting just won India a series in SL after 22 yrs or something, where the previous generation didn't win a single series. SL too is spinner's haven. So if you want to say the present lot can't play spin, then that I feel is over-reaching.

Also SA in the #1 test side in the world, who have come to India and won against the Tendulkar Dravid generation twice. So to beat an SA side on a 10 yr something unbeaten away series run is by no means a small feat. Too much is being made of the pitch. Spinning wickets are not a new invention in India, which happened just a week ago. SA have been coming to play on these wickets and been winning. So to say SA lost to the pitch, is greatly underestimating the SA players who have won on the same pitches in the past.

Lastly point out to me one wicket that fell to a great deal of spin. Most batsmen just missed or edged straight balls. Some did fall to spin but that was a few degrees of spin you would get anywhere in India.

Ya there's just this unnecessary criticism by people that oh india is obviously going to prepare wickets that suit them so they can be competitive, but isn't that like every home team???????

 

[namin96]

I think it wasn't a bad test match at all because I love to see bowlers dominating rather batsmen just hammering and ending up in a very boring way to make it a draw. But thing is India should focus on creating 5-day tracks, or I guess Sachin-Dravid's era was the last in Indian cricket's history to have an order of spin specialists. It's funny how Indian batsmen fell against SA's flabby spin attack on their very own pitch. I believe the pitch was totally bad though. But considering that the same Indian lineup fell against amateur Moin Khan in couple of matches last year in England, and how only Vijay and Pujara can stand longer and others don't when pitch is turning, I had to think that. Only Tahir is the best bowler SA now has for this series and he is not really surrounded by a quality assisting unit. If India continues to produce extremely turning conditions, not only it will continue to be the 3 days match but also that will help SA to get extra training sessions and that could really help them to come back stronger after the second test match or hopefully in the second test match. As the winning margin wasn't as wide as expected, India should try building pitches that could assist both their bowlers and batsmen so they can score better and wide, and that would also decrease some pressure on bowlers which could also help them think better to bowl better even if the conditions are not totally with them as in Mohali. As Hashim Amla thinks if the target was around 160 they could have found it easier, I think they can hope to achieve a win or two in upcoming test matches if India still insist to prepare pitches like Mohali. It is a big concern for India's team management. The tournament is long, SA have already few experienced batsmen for Indian conditions and if JP Duminy is picked then SA will be helped with an exra batting and bowling option as well.

Also Ishant Sharma's ban is lifted and he's ready to play in next games so I think Varun Aaron should be dropped and not Umesh Yadav as we hope to see Ishant making comeback. Aaron was never a good choice for India except they are playing outside the sub-continent. Something that helps him stick in the test side is that he's got the pace. But only the pace would not allow him to pick wickets in these conditions because the opposition are actually masters of playing against pace. And when he hasn't got the swing, the line, the length and the momentum, he will be just hammered again and again. If India can't rely on Umesh Yadav, they must go for Bhuvneshwar Kumar who could trouble the batsmen in earlier overs and who could also reverse swing a little bit.

Uh, Kohli didn't get out to spin like the others did. He got out to pace in both innings and specifically I think Kohli got himself out in both innings. Let's not forget what Kohli did on a nasty day 5 Adelaide pitch and that pitch was worse than this mohali pitch believe it or not. And I still think Kohli is our best player of spin, he's also our best player in general.