The PlanetCricket View: The Aussie selectors...cracks are appearing

sifter132

Panel of Selectors
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Location
NSW
Good reactions guys, thanks :thumbs I can see the other side of the coin, despite my negativity. In fact, looking at all those things I talked about in isolation and they really aren't big deals, it's just when I thought of them all together that I sensed some trouble.

Things like Starc getting more value in state cricket than ODIs are actually something I'd agree with, it would be nice if Inverarity would confirm that this is in the masterplan, or whether it's just a byproduct of him getting dropped. Was also nice to hear them say that Siddle is NOT in their short term ODI plans this week. It's just another distraction from him honing his Test skills.
 

formula1man

International Cricketer
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Location
Western Australia
Online Cricket Games Owned
nice attempt at getting back on topic haha, not gonna work :P

here in WA most of my mates are AFL, cricket and english preimer league fans. dont know anyone who really like NRL.
 

sifter132

Panel of Selectors
Joined
Oct 29, 2006
Location
NSW
Hah I don't care, just thought I should react since I started the thread...

NRL really has a problem outside QLD and NSW, but then AFL isn't really big here in NSW and QLD either, especially in the country areas where league has been king for ages.

Cricket's a sport everyone loves, but not a lot of people seem to understand deeply. It's just one of those sports that's always on the telly in summer and it's very patriotic because international cricket rules unlike the club stuff in footy.

Then my simplistist view football/soccer fans is that they seem to belong to only 2 classes of people: 1) the elitist 'football is the best because it's the world game' types (not trying to be racist, but this opinion seems to be often held by those who've come from overseas in the last generation or two) or 2) the 2nd type fan is the sports nut who loves sport so much that he's willing to watch Serie A or EPL, but he's into everything else too, so it's hard to call them real football/soccer fans. Other than that it's soccer mums who don't want their kids to play a violent sport - they'd rather teach their kids to dive, fake injuries and manipulate authority figures ie. refs :D
 

formula1man

International Cricketer
Joined
Apr 4, 2007
Location
Western Australia
Online Cricket Games Owned
Hah I don't care, just thought I should react since I started the thread...

NRL really has a problem outside QLD and NSW, but then AFL isn't really big here in NSW and QLD either, especially in the country areas where league has been king for ages.

Cricket's a sport everyone loves, but not a lot of people seem to understand deeply. It's just one of those sports that's always on the telly in summer and it's very patriotic because international cricket rules unlike the club stuff in footy.

Then my simplistist view football/soccer fans is that they seem to belong to only 2 classes of people: 1) the elitist 'football is the best because it's the world game' types (not trying to be racist, but this opinion seems to be often held by those who've come from overseas in the last generation or two) or 2) the 2nd type fan is the sports nut who loves sport so much that he's willing to watch Serie A or EPL, but he's into everything else too, so it's hard to call them real football/soccer fans. Other than that it's soccer mums who don't want their kids to play a violent sport - they'd rather teach their kids to dive, fake injuries and manipulate authority figures ie. refs :D

I'm 2 haha. anyway the selectors got our bowling attack all wrong last night.
 

Sedition

Panel of Selectors
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
Country NSW
Online Cricket Games Owned
I was biting my tongue for a few days and even started typing another biased NRL post, but stopped myself, so as to not continually go way off topic :p

While it's true there's not much support for NRL outside NSW and Qld, those states make up over half our population, so if you're gonna be king anywhere, that's the place to be. We have a small share in Victoria and it's hard to ask for much more than that with their obsession for AFL and hatred of all things NSW, where our great game was born. There's about 80% of our population in those 3 states alone (throw in ACT too), so all those yobbos and dickheads in the west and south are pretty insignificant. They're like the kids that are always picked last, so they just go off and do their own thing.

Soccer's really only started gaining popularity in the last 10 years, after we qualified for the WC for the first time in 20 or so years. I think it's pretty much at it's peak and it will never reach the level of our other footy codes. Plus it's rigged and corrupt as hell, games are bought every day and players making 50m a year can't even get every shot on goal, I mean wtf is that? It's pretty easy. Dives, faking injuries, nancy slapping fights. What a tweaked game.
 

War

Chairman of Selectors
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Online Cricket Games Owned
1) The youth policy - part 1. Ponting has essentially lost his spot in the XI to David Hussey (of course both could play with Watson injured). Forrest is really the reserve batsman, not in the starting XI. so his status isn't quite so relevant. If the 2015 World Cup is the goal as Inverarity claims, is it really forward looking to drop your 37 year old (Ponting) for a guy who's 35 in a few months (D.Hussey)?

2) The youth policy - part 2. If 2015 is the goal, then why has Ryan Harris come back into the squad in place of Mitchell Starc? Harris was unlucky at times in the first couple of ODIs, but in general his bowling was no better than Starc's was. Arguably worse. Given Harris' constant injury risk and age, I would have thought there would be little to gain from giving him more ODIs at this point in his career as compared to Starc. Going by the 'old players need to perform' hypothesis that seemed to be in vogue for Ponting, why has it not applied to Harris? Similarly, Brett Lee was rushed back into the squad despite knowing he would be pushing the pain barrier. Lee can't be in the 2015 plans either and there are a few young bowlers around Australia that I'm sure the selectors would like to see at some point eg. McDermott, Coulter-Nile, Faulkner. Now Lee proved the other night that he can still bowl very well, so his individual selection really isn't in question, but I maintain that the selectors are mixing their messages a bit here.



3) The captaincy. It's a little baffling how Ponting can be ELEVATED to the captaincy a mere two games before he is dropped for good. For starters, how does that make David Warner's vice-captaincy look? Essentially, he's been overlooked for the captaincy for a dead man walking . It was hard to be a supporter of Warner's premature elevation to vice-captaincy anyway, but Ponting's appointment and then quick turfing proves Warner as VC really is a sham.

It also makes it equally baffling that a mere week before he was dropped, Ponting's praises were being sung lustily by the Cricket Australia team as they announced him temporary leader. Did they really not decide to drop him until this week? Was it based on Watson's fitness? Either way, he'll be now on record as having played his last game as captain. How often has a captain been dropped mid series? Better yet, how often has a captain (or even a mere player) been dropped after a 110 run win over the world champs?

4) The precedent. With Ponting dropped mid series for bad form, will that not make every other senior player feel nervous? How is Mike Hussey going to feel when he puts 3 or 4 bad scores together in a row? Ponting, a legend of Aussie cricket and still one of the best fieldsmen in the team got 5 poor innings. On that logic, Hussey should probably get less than 5 innings before he gets dropped. Surely good selection policy says that players with promise, talent, AND established class get the chance to turn their form around in a series. See Shaun Marsh in the Test series for example. See Dave Warner in this current series, clearly out of touch, but deserves more opportunities. It's easy to think Ponting should have been afforded a similar courtesy, given he's Australia's leading run scorer of all time, his recent Test series, and his productive 2011 in ODIs (average of 40, S/R of 80).

Ponting has faced a mere 66 balls this series. Is 66 balls enough to say a player is done? Why didn't the selectors make a similar decision when Ponting scratched around Hobart against NZ in a Test earlier in the summer? Is the competition for ODI spots that much stronger than the Test side? Is Peter Forrest so much better than Usman Khawaja? Interesting questions to me. Australia lost in Hobart, whereas they are on top of the CB series table. Strikes me as strange to drop him now, but not after that Test loss.

5) The indecision. Brad Haddin was apparently rested for the first 3 ODIs, but it has since become clear that he was dropped. Haddin spilled the beans on this in interviews he had with the media, and Steve Waugh publically questioned the selectors in the following week or two. Then last week we finally hear from the selectors that Haddin in fact HAS been dropped. This smacks of indecision. They have essentially trialled Wade in the first 3 ODIs, probably hoping that Haddin found some runs in the Shield or his club game, and they could have easily made the swap back to Haddin. However once Haddin showed no improvement and Wade did well, they decided to put a line through Haddin's name. That's some hardcore fence-sitting. Or maybe it's slightly better, a communication breakdown, but neither of those are good for selectors. It's not just been Haddin vs Wade either. Mitchell Marsh and Dan Christian have been fighting for the all-rounder spot since the T20Is began. The selectors seem unsure of how to get Marsh into international cricket, giving him 2 games off to play for WA to get him some action. Couple that with the imminent return of the #1 all-rounder Watson, and one wonders what Marsh was actually going to do in the Aussie XI.


I was a definite fan of the new Aussie selection panel in their first month or two. Cowan and Warner deserved and were given shots in the Test side. Pattinson and Hilfenhaus too. Yet this last couple of weeks has me scratching my head a little bit (and I haven't even mentioned George Bailey :eek:). Here's to hoping that things are a bit clearer going forward.


ATM i would say David Hussey is clearly still in the plans for 2015 world cup despite his age. His situation is different to other old aged players like Ponting, M Hussey and Lee also to be fair.

D Hussey only in late 2010 has got his chance in the AUS ODI setup as a regular first team player after being on the fringes for years. He doesn't have the baggage of years of international cricket behind them like Ponting, Lee and M Hussey. So essentially he is the batting version of Brad Hogg circa 2002/03 - thus once he maintains this form like Hogg at the 2007 w/cup at age 36/37 - Dussey can very well and be in the 2015 w/cup squad at age 36/37.

Post 2010 world cup we always knew sometime over the 4 years those older players would be phased out since they clearly weren't going to make it - but its fine to keep them around to help guide the potential replacements, so when the fail and those youngsters step up they can come in.

Ponting to me when he gave up the captaincy should have resigned from ODIs too since he had less relevance in the ODI setup in the next couple of years compared to Mussey and Lee.

I personally didn't find Ponting getting the captaincy much a problem to be frank and i thought the big media craze about it was a bit odd. I always thought Warner was given the v/captain role in the absence of Watson more as way of getting him involved in decision making, given that have identified him as a future leader - but not because he was next best captain in the team at the moment behind Clarke.

The selectors probably never bargained that Clarke would get injured, so when he did and they had to give Ponting the captaincy the media made too much a deal out of it.


Also a larger point on this "planning for the 2015 world cup" rhetoric. Every selector around the world post 2011 world cup when they pick ODI team will always state they are picking teams with the next world cup in mind.

But we all have watched cricket long enough (me personally since the 1996 world cup) and it never happens that way. Teams don't realistically start 100% picking the next world cup until one-year before the tournament, no team seriously will know their best squad or 3 or 4 years out, since alot can happen with regardless to player returns i.e AUS possibly could see a revival of Cam White in the coming years or some unknown youngster could emerge between now and 2015.


On Harris he too I would say still has a big part to play in the limited overs teams leading up to the 2015 world cup, but essentially the selectors need to make up their minds about him as a test cricket.

As you know after the disastrous 2010/11 ashes - we were all desperate to have Harris fit and back since the bowling stocks looked in a mess. But the revival of Hilfenhaus and Siddle coupled with the emergence of Pattinson, Cummins and Starc means that the importance of Harris to the test side isn't that huge - so they selectors don't need to stress his body out to play test.

Let Harris be Australia's Malinga and play ODI and T20s only and manage his fitness. Harris will be 35 in the 2015 world cup, but we have seen currently bowlers like Lee, Nannes, Bond and Akhtar bowl 90 mph at that age without the rigours of test cricket to worry about and i see no reason why Harris can't do the same.


Would agree about the fence sitting over Haddin. His place was under pressure given his form, but they clearly wanted to back him - however he really could not have started the ODI series given his form. But the right choice has been made for the ODI teams future really with Wade becoming # 1 in the format. I don't mind giving Haddin one more chance to keep his test place in the Caribbean.

On young Marsh well i potentially see a place in the future once he continues to develop in which AUS ODI team can have all three all-rounder in the same XI.

It would be a bit like S Africa in the 1990s where you can have Watson the top-order batting all-rounder (Kallis) while M Marsh and Christian would be the middle/lower-order all rounders (Klusener and S Pollock).

Overall i'm not too worried about what they are doing, i think they moving just fine. The only decision that bothers me is the elevation of Bailey as T20 captain and the apparent stubbornness they are citing that he will remain captain for the t20 world cup.

If he fails in the two t20s in the Caribbean really he has to be dropped and Watson has to be given the captaincy, since Bailey looks like another Clarke t20 failure on the cards already.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top