The Disputed Catches Debate

Slowcoach

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Australian captain Ricky Ponting once again raised the issue of disputed catches and his view that the batsman should take the fielder's word as to whether the catch was taken cleanly or not.

He stated that none of the other international captains agree with his view and that they would rather the matter be left in the hands of the umpires.

My view is that Ponting is wrong and is sticking to his view because he sees taking the fielder's word as an "Australian" way of doing things.

The reason I think he is wrong is because if a fielder claims a catch that was clearly proven to be not clean it creates a lot of bad blood between the two teams, and if a batsman stands his ground and is reprieved because the replay is inconclusive there is much less ill feeling.

Some may point to the Ganguly/Warne/Smith disputed catch during the IPL and claim there was a lot of ill feeling created by Ganguly not accepting the fielder's word that the catch had been taken cleanly. The replays were inconclusive and I think the main reason it became an incident was because Ganguly and Warne were the players involved, two spiky characters who often get under people's skin.

To defend my point of view, and that of the majority of international captains, I point to the incident involving Australian wicketkeeper Greg Dyer during the 80's. Dyer was clearly shown on replay picking up a missed chance as he rolled over and claiming it as a fair catch, and on that occasion the ill feeling created among not just the opposition but the Australian public effectively ended his career.

Cricket has enough controversy without fielders being crucified by television replays for unfairly claiming catches, so I think Ponting should drop this debate and leave it in the hands of the umpires, if a replay is inconclusive and a batsman is given not out when a fielder "thinks" the catch was taken cleanly then it is just bad luck.
 

ankurs_009

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I think the signing of the pact to take the fielders point on claiming catches is not so intelligent option.Also the fact that sometimes even the fielder couldnt says that he is 100% sure he has taken it clearly like(one in michael clarke's case) .so it must b handed completely in hands on the on field umpires & TV umpire .
 

Sureshot

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Wouldn't hotspot be good at showing if the ball hit the ground? Because it'd leave a heat mark on the ground.
 

sohum

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This is the crux of the matter. The replays are always inconclusive. By nature, the third umpire is terrible at judging catch decisions.
It turns out that sometimes the fielder isn't too "good" at judging it either, hence the agreement must never be in effect (again).
 

Kev

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Would be great if we could trust fielders these days, but we can't.

Would be great if TV replays were in 3d so they might actually be of some use, but they aren't.

Would be good if umpires got it right all the time, but they don't.

So you have to decide which of the 3 is the best in an imperfect world, leave it up to the umpires I say, it's their job, it's not the fielders job and it's not a cameramans job either.
 

angryangy

ICC Chairman
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It turns out that sometimes the fielder isn't too "good" at judging it either, hence the agreement must never be in effect (again).
Do we have umpires because they are 100% correct though, or do were merely seek as many correct decisions as possible?

The trouble is that while some must be grassed catches, some are also going to be genuine catches not given out and nobody has really been in any position to say which is which in the vast majority of cases.

In my opinion the biggest problem is simply that catches can be referred. I tend to think Ponting's agreement came from the same sort of disillusionment, an attempt to create a process that just prevents referral, regardless of how imperfect.

As the saying goes, let us not use technology for technology's sake. The third umpire's standard TV replay is not adequate to make the decision almost every time; I would even go so far as to say that it isn't sufficiently accurate for a great number of stumping and run out cases either. I'd be much happier if the on-field umpire simply said he's not sure and got on with it. If he reckons he's got some nads and decides to give a close one out, then surely that's no more difficult a decision to stomach than the average lbw.
 

Slowcoach

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I agree that it would be best for the onfield umpires to make the decision, but the laws state the umpire must be absolutely certain a batsman is out before he can be given out.

If there is any doubt then that means the umpire is not absolutely certain and therefore the batsman must not be given out, therefore the batsman receives the benefit of any doubt in the umpire's mind.

As for using Hot Spot to rule on disputed catches, the problem with that is that the ball may land in someone's hands with enough force to cause the fielders' hands/fingers/knuckles to strike the ground and leave a mark.

The current referral system, although far from perfect, is the best we have because it stops fielders from being branded as cheats for making an honest mistake and claiming a catch which they did not know has bounced.
 

ankurs_009

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I dunno about claiming catches but still we haven't got conclusive technology that shows weather a catch is taken cleanly or not .In recent matches in SRI LANKA the incident showed a catch bieng ruled as fine (with a a camera like 25 frames per sec) but when that same replay was shot by a another camera with more (frames /sec ) ,it showed that the ball just bounced on the ground.

It makes a tough one for everyone ,i read an article about NFL using high definition
camera in thier matches..mayb in cricket too ...wat do ya think folks!!
 

sohum

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Do we have umpires because they are 100% correct though, or do were merely seek as many correct decisions as possible?

The trouble is that while some must be grassed catches, some are also going to be genuine catches not given out and nobody has really been in any position to say which is which in the vast majority of cases.
Neither. We trust umpires because they are expected to be neutral. Hence, you really don't analyze their decisions from a bias point of view (except if they are Steve Bucknor :p). When it comes to taking fielder's words, you really have to trust the honesty of the fielder, as well as their judgment. That's too many variables, for me.

In my opinion the biggest problem is simply that catches can be referred. I tend to think Ponting's agreement came from the same sort of disillusionment, an attempt to create a process that just prevents referral, regardless of how imperfect.

As the saying goes, let us not use technology for technology's sake. The third umpire's standard TV replay is not adequate to make the decision almost every time; I would even go so far as to say that it isn't sufficiently accurate for a great number of stumping and run out cases either. I'd be much happier if the on-field umpire simply said he's not sure and got on with it. If he reckons he's got some nads and decides to give a close one out, then surely that's no more difficult a decision to stomach than the average lbw.
The biggest problem for me in decision-making is false positives. I wouldn't mind having an out-catch called not-out, but having a not-out catch being called out is really bad. I think technology successfully prevents the false positive, when used for catching referrals. When it comes to trusting fielders, well, we've all seen how that's gone.

As for using technology in run outs and stumpings, I disagree with your point of view. I think they have helped the game tremendously. I do feel umpires are a bit over-cautious when calling for the third umpire but I've noticed over this millennium that they are becoming a little more balls-y and not calling every single appeal. Of course, then you end up with situations like that stumping appeal against Symonds in Sydney, which Bucknor did not refer and where Symonds was out.
 

Mr.Cricket

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I think its great if we can trust fielder's word in these situations. If anyone wants to take advantage of that and ICC find them gulity, they should be rubbed out for few games. But I doubt this is ever going to happen , so we should leave it to the umpires to make the decision.
 

sohum

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I think its great if we can trust fielder's word in these situations. If anyone wants to take advantage of that and ICC find them gulity, they should be rubbed out for few games. But I doubt this is ever going to happen , so we should leave it to the umpires to make the decision.
The captain's agreement has nothing to do with the ICC. And if the ICC find a fielder guilty of "cheating" by claiming a catch they hadn't cleanly taken, I'm sure the catcher in question would plead innocence. Basically it's a lose-lose situation and hence it's only a good idea to disagree with the "pact".
 

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