Why New Zealand is not No.1 team even though they have great bowlers like Vettori, Shane Bond?

[sam450]

If we compare Australia have great bowlers like Hauritz, Mittchele Johnson, Doug Bollinger, Siddle and Kiwis have bowlers like Vettori, Kyle Mills, Ian O'brein, Tim Southee, Shane Bond.

Great Batsman like Mike Hussey, Ponting, Michael Clarke, Katich
Kiwis have batsman like Ryder, Brendon McCullum, RossTaylor,

Allrounders like Shane Watson, Mittchele Johnson, James Hopes
Allrounders like Vettori, Oram
I just want to know where Kiwis are lacking and in which deparment

 

[shravi]

Because they also have players like Tim McIntosh.

 

[TumTum]

1. Shane Bond has hardly ever played for NZ

2. You can hardly call Vettori a "great" bowler with a SR of 76.7

3. NZ have good batsmen, but most of them are usually out of form and it is left to a couple of guys to do the run scoring

 

[King Pietersen]

They've not got enough depth. Their batting relies on Taylor and Vettori atm with Ryder out, and once he comes back he's going to take a little while to get back into International cricket. Their batting order has been filled with some very average cricketers like McIntosh, Watling, Guptill, Flynn, Bell, Sinclair etc etc. Oram's been over the hill for about 3/4 years, Vettori although a good bowler hasn't proven himself to be a match winner with the ball outside Bangladesh. Bond's barely played, and you'd struggle to beat the top sides consistently with an attack that consists of Southee, Mills, O'Brien, Martin and Gillespie.

 

[rahuldravidfan]

They've got injury issues. I bet Howsie can add a bit more to this discussion.

 

[Howsie]

Pretty much what the three above said, New Zealand doesn't have enough depth to compete with the top teams for a long period of time. No team is ever going to be able to win on a consistant basis with only three or so test class batsmen and a handful of duds.

 

[Robelinda]

Ryder/McCullum/Taylor combined arent as good as Ponting. Enough said.

 

[TumTum]

Ryder/McCullum/Taylor combined arent as good as Ponting. Enough said.

All 4 of them combined cannot even match Mitch Marsh

TumTum added 1 Minutes and 13 Seconds later...

I am surprised I am not bagged about by 2nd point yet

 

[Howsie]

They've not got enough depth. Their batting relies on Taylor and Vettori atm with Ryder out, and once he comes back he's going to take a little while to get back into International cricket. Their batting order has been filled with some very average cricketers like McIntosh, Watling, Guptill, Flynn, Bell, Sinclair etc etc. Oram's been over the hill for about 3/4 years, Vettori although a good bowler hasn't proven himself to be a match winner with the ball outside Bangladesh. Bond's barely played, and you'd struggle to beat the top sides consistently with an attack that consists of Southee, Mills, O'Brien, Martin and Gillespie.

Watling? He's played one test and actually done decently well. Guptill considering what he's done in one day cricket and Watling shouldn't be lumped in with Matthew Bell and co.

 

[King Pietersen]

I've not actually seen Watling play, but he's a Kiwi batsman, I presumed he'd be rubbish. His FC average suggests I may have been right grouping him in with that lot too. I was talking about proper cricket, not ODi's. In terms of Test cricket, Martin Guptill is in the same category as Bell and co.

 

[Howsie]

Ryder/McCullum/Taylor combined arent as good as Ponting. Enough said.

If you're looking at his entire career then no doubt, Ponting has 39 100's compared to the combined nine of Ryder/McCullum/Taylor. But Ross Taylor has made massive strides in his development as a test batsmen during 2009.

He regulary come in for two down for not many and along with Vettori had to pretty much carry this entire New Zealand batting line-up, scoring 782 runs at 55 in 09. Numbers in terms of average that Ponting hasn't put up for three full years now

And no, I'm not saying Ross Taylor > Ricky Ponting in any form at all. But Ross Taylor really doesn't get enough credit for his development in test cricket and is still seen unfairly IMO as a limited overs player outside of New Zealand.

Howsie added 16 Minutes and 45 Seconds later...

I've not actually seen Watling play, but he's a Kiwi batsman, I presumed he'd be rubbish. His FC average suggests I may have been right grouping him in with that lot too. I was talking about proper cricket, not ODi's. In terms of Test cricket, Martin Guptill is in the same category as Bell and co.

Haha fair enough. Although his number's in FC cricket are actually far worse then Bell's and McIntosh's so he should really be worse But unlike those two he plays for ND and actually plays on tracks that give the bowlers assistance, and he actually looks quality at the crease, something McIntosh and Bell have never been described as no matter how many runs they've plundered at domestic level.

 

[Robelinda]

Yeah I am Taylor fan, some of his tons have been exceptional, even his 90's, but you know what I mean.

 

[pcfan123]

NZs Test seam attack looks woeful now that O'Brien and Bond are gone.

 

[irottev]

Depth is the issue. Plus yeah, we've just lost a few good players (Bond and O'Brien). Whenever a side seem to start to form we lose good players and can't replace them. We also don't have the resources and population to drive cricket like Australia can. It's very much a second priority behind rugby here. Our contracted cricketers make hardly anything, they compared the contracts to Australia's and I think our highest paid contract gets only what the lowest paid Australian contract gets which is why we're in danger from this IPL/T20 business (Like O'Brien has and Bond did before). Players are going to quit earlier to go get some more money etc.

Also we don't have solid batting. We have some talented young players coming through like Taylor, Ryder, etc but we have no Ponting or Tendulkar, Dravid, Clarke, Smith, Kallis, etc. BY the end of Taylor and Ryder's careers I hope they'll be up there in the list of names.

If NZ could field the strongest side from the last decade with Fleming, Bond, Astle, Taylor, Carinsey, Vettori, etc all fit and in there it would be a very good side and would probably be mid table as opposed to bottom.

 

[ballers101]

Well New Zealand is an interesting team. They are very similar to Pakistan however, on paper you see so much talent however, there batting lineup has many frequent collapses and they have difficulty finding a steady partnership to calm down the collapse.