World T20 2016 - Review

[Epic]

I did not want to get s*cked into this, but I am curious. In which games did Joe "save England" ?

- Against WI - walked in at a comfy 1/37. And england lost the game
- Against SAF: an average case for saving here, but he played a fantastic knock regardless of the flat deck and awful bowling
- Against AFG, walked in at 16/1, fell for 12. No saving
- Against SL, walked in at 4/1, made 25 in 24. Not a lot of saving
- Against NZ, he walked in at 82/1 chasing 154. Nothing to save there
- In the final, he played a very good knock in a tricky situation. But England LOST !

So where exactly was the saving

--

Quick look at Kohli:
- Won the game single handedly against Pak with openers and Raina gone, in testing conditions against top class bowling.
- Won the game single handedly against Aus with openers and Raina gone, from a losing position, in a knock out game.

That is already more than what Joe did this tournament.

@cricket_icon I remembered how you conveniently forgot to reply to this post in the original thread.

Are you going to try and tell me the Indian management didn't have a say in what pitch they wanted prepared? Of course they did, it's not even a secret. It's just that their own batsmen failed on turning pitches, which was supposed to be their strength. And all this just for Kohli?

Are you Kohli fans or cricket fans? If so, try and comment on some other issues I raised. If not, there's no point in any of you posting on here any further.

Damn, no wonder Indian fans are regarded as the worst.

Damn, no wonder when someone sees a debate headed to a place they're not ready for, they resort to name calling.

 

[grkrama]

Are you Kohli fans or cricket fans?

You could be both you know.

Are you going to try and tell me the Indian management didn't have a say in what pitch they wanted prepared? Of course they did, it's not even a secret. It's just that their own batsmen failed on turning pitches, which was supposed to be their strength. And all this just for Kohli?

how does that even matter in determining the best batsman, a tough pitch is a tough one whether home doctored are made by nature as in kolkata due to rain!

Damn, no wonder Indian fans are regarded as the worst.

Why? There has only been a quite humble difference of opinion, you stated yours and i have backed up mine.

Don't worry, I have had my fair share of crazed Indian fans on here. It's best not to feed them too much.

Most cricket fans are crazy!

 

[grkrama]

Now that I have cleared that root wasn't a deserving MOS with considerable amount facts in above posts moving on to your other issues.

What of India? The pre tournament favourites you really never managed to fire. Their mediocre batting propped up by a quite remarkable T20 talent. If there had been no Virat Kohli, how low would the Indians have fallen? And how would that have affected the tournament as a whole? Where do India go from here? Is Dhoni still the man needed as captain and lower order heart stopper? Or is it time to move on?

I think the issues lie at the top, with dhawan, he isnt a t20 player by any means have been saying that for a while even at his best he doesnt do much in t20s, i have no idea how he makes the t20 game ahead of uthappa or vijay!

rohit was probably the biggest let down especially after having quite a good run this year!

Raina is woefully out of form in even his best format, he has to be kicked down to states cricket and made to work his way back, manish pandey is very good replacement. yuvi i think its almost the last of him we will see in INTL, it was sad to watch the touch of old brilliance here and there but never able to get fully going. will be hard to replace him as an allrounder. pandya with time can fit the bill in t20!

Bowling pace surprisingly has been pretty good for us so thats a huge positive, though we will need to find a good replacement for nehraji soon, hope shami can step it up after returning from injury!

Spin while many would say ashwin bombed and its closer to truth but still i felt he wasnt handled well, i mean even in WI game, ya he went for 20 in two overs but still he is your best bowler and should be backed better, same happened in another game were he didnt finish his quota. i think the biggest disappointment with him was that he didnt bowl good, but didnt live up to expectations.

Regarding MSD the captain, i dont see how kohli would have made any difference given that our top and middle order werent buying runs, may be a better use of bowlers nothing more, though i would like to see MSD play more freely just as a player without captaining burden!

Lower order heart stoppee? well he still averages a bradmanish 99 this tournament i think, got out only once, has delivered blows, got out only once, cant expect more from a guy that comes at 6, he is certainly ageing but still one of the best finishers in the world. Plus that work behind the stumps, it will be hard to replace him!

Overall its t20 we had a pretty good year, getting winning in aus, asia cup and getting to semi, though we never really got going into the top gear in WC. we will be back in shape in no time.!

Then there's Australia, the traditional super power of modern day cricket, which has never really foudn itself comfortable in the shortest format of the game. They have what it takes, quality batsmen and quality bowlers. Yet they never seem to gel. Is this format far to haphazard and wild for a team and a cricketing structure built on order and discipline?

Dont think there is much to change with them, they just got shown door by a brilliant innings. zampa did well. If anything now that they are under one captain in all formats they should get going better.They are almost becoming south africa of t20 WC:P

Oh, and what of the once great T20 nations of Pakistan and Sri Lanka? Both teams are going through times of change. Great players have left. Not so great players have arrived. Pakistan in particular, so dominant in the early phases of this form, now look lost. They don't have the big hitters required, nor are their bowlers imaginative enough to consistently pick up wickets. Times are changing. They have to keep up.

probably the biggest issue of the tournament as i had stated earlier in my posts, In a tournament in subcontinent if not 2 can make to semifinal it really shoes the deterioration.

In 2011WC 3 SC teams made to semi final, now only india! Both pak and sl have some ground work to do and blood the right youngsters and will take at-least a year or two to get into a state if things go properly! In this tourny some tactical changes would have done well for pak too like akmal and malik batting higher up! still a lot of ground work is need there!


NZ are closer to finals than SA and i feel its only a matter of time before they get one in the cabinet, but SA it wasn't a typical choke this time, but produced one of the grade A horrific bowling i have seen in that match against ENG which was theirs to win if they had kept their heads on shoulders.


ENG have done well to build their team from dust after being out of the WC15, roy, root , butler, stokes, ali lead the team with energy this their team, even jordan has improved a lot with his yorkers. Pak and SL can do a lot to take ENG as example to start from scratch, though they may not have the resources ENG has.

 

[cricket_icon]

Moving on from the Kohli-Root thing, I find this a good review, but one thing that I didn't quite understand is why you wrote only two sentences about New Zealand.

Because I feel that summed up new Zealand. Williamson was a smart captain throughout and knew how to use his players on various surfaces but as usual, the entire team lacked that extra bit of quality needed to win a tournament. Much like last year and many years before.

Just so i could clarify i will requote myself




This isnt at all about kohli, but how root is not at all an contender for MOS as eng fans claim.

The only contenders for MOS this series were Kohli and badree! I will take any of the two but root wasnt just up there with those two, that's the key point of the whole argument!

I'm not stating Root is POT because I'm an England fan, I'm stating it as a cricket fan. Now, you state Badree has a better reason to have that award but Badree was the 4th highest wicket taker in the tournament (not counting players from other teams who played in the qualifiers), so why does he get a better chance, IN YOUR BOOK, compared to say...Santner? I'm sure you will quote how he bowled in the PP overs and how he took important wickets and guided his team to the final. So it's not just the numbers but what they mean. It's the very reason Root is the man.

 

[cricket_icon]

@cricket_icon I remembered how you conveniently forgot to reply to this post in the original thread.


Damn, no wonder when someone sees a debate headed to a place they're not ready for, they resort to name calling.

If you don't know what games Root saved then you weren't watching the tournament.

And there's no name calling, it's just the truth. Indian fans get too worked up if one of their own is not named as the best. It happens all the time. It's interesting the only guy who actually decided to talk about other aspects of the tournament was a non-Indian.

 

[Epic]

If you don't know what games Root saved then you weren't watching the tournament.

Not an answer.

And there's no name calling, it's just the truth. Indian fans get too worked up if one of their own is not named as the best. It happens all the time. It's interesting the only guy who actually decided to talk about other aspects of the tournament was a non-Indian.

I don't know why people mistake seriousness for hostility, no one is worked up, and who exactly are you patting on the back with the last sentence? He types a lot but @grkrama has mentioned other aspects of the tournament too.

 

[themusketeer]

Indian fans get too worked up if one of their own is not named as the best.

Isn't It happens every time that some Indian player gets overlooked because he is one ? What you are saying is that we can't back up our players if they played better than others. Just accept someone who didn't play better than him either statistically or situationally and accept it because Non-Indians believe that.

When you start something you gotta back it up with enough stats. Cricket is a game of stats and how a player performed in the certain situation either you believe it or not. You can't just post Indian fans are crazy when they show you stats and you start all those home conditions and BCCI thing. Yet you judge Root as best test batsman on his home performance.

 

[bigred]

Isn't It happens every time that some Indian player gets overlooked because he is one ? What you are saying is that we can't back up our players if they played better than others. Just accept someone who didn't play better than him either statistically or situationally and accept it because Non-Indians believe that.

When you start something you gotta back it up with enough stats. Cricket is a game of stats and how a player performed in the certain situation either you believe it or not. You can't just post Indian fans are crazy when they show you stats and you start all those home conditions and BCCI thing. Yet you judge Root as best test batsman on his home performance.

Not getting into the Root vs Kohli debate again, but I think cricket is more than about stats. If it were then one of my favourite cricketer (Marcus Trescothick) would've never played for England. Averaged 28 before first test cap.

 

[cricket_icon]

Isn't It happens every time that some Indian player gets overlooked because he is one ? What you are saying is that we can't back up our players if they played better than others. Just accept someone who didn't play better than him either statistically or situationally and accept it because Non-Indians believe that.

When you start something you gotta back it up with enough stats. Cricket is a game of stats and how a player performed in the certain situation either you believe it or not. You can't just post Indian fans are crazy when they show you stats and you start all those home conditions and BCCI thing. Yet you judge Root as best test batsman on his home performance.

It's way more than stats but like I said, the Indian fans only seem to see the Kohli bt of what I've written and nothing else. It's not surprising, I've seen similar stuff all the time.

Plus, no one is saying Kohli played bad.

Anyway, enough of this. Move on to other stuff or refrain from posting, simple as that.

 

[Epic]

Not getting into the Root vs Kohli debate again, but I think cricket is more than about stats. If it were then one of my favourite cricketer (Marcus Trescothick) would've never played for England. Averaged 28 before first test cap.

Given the state of English cricket then that might've seen as "good" numbers. There's always other factors just like anything else and most of that is subjective like someone's cover drive looking more rad than someone, for e.g. Steve Smith as a Test batsman seems to be going under everyone's radar because he doesn't have the best looking shots while a Williamson or a Root people see as better because they play better looking shots. We tend to forget numbers and who scored what and where etc.

But yes, this Kohli vs Root thing has been beaten to death at this point, I only wanted to see @cricket_icon respond to that post by @abhi_jacko and stepped in beyond that only because he generalized Indian fans as the "worst" as if we're hooligans on the internet lol.

It's way more than stats but like I said, the Indian fans only seem to see the Kohli bt of what I've written and nothing else. It's not surprising, I've seen similar stuff all the time.

Plus, no one is saying Kohli played bad.

Anyway, enough of this. Move on to other stuff or refrain from posting, simple as that.

You keep saying this but @grkrama posted regarding every team in direct response to you, not sure if you just chose to not read it all or what.

 

[abhi_jacko]

the Indian fans only seem to see the Kohli bt of what I've written and nothing else

Pot. Kettle. Black

You are doing the exact same thing hombre

 

[Aalay]

LOL finally someone said it. I haven't seen any Indian poster here calling him any names like "buttuhurt", "emotional" or "worked up". He has been calling Indian fans all of that but doesn't realize he is the one who is showing all that. To compare Root and Kohli in limited overs is an absolute joke. For this recently concluded T20 WC, Root and Kohli both played well but Kohli has been leading in stats. As you rightly pointed out, cricket is not all about stats. However, even if we look situations wise, Kohli was in worse situation every time he came out to bat and still comfortably outscored Root. As I said in that WC thread, Kohli basically carried the Indian batting in the whole tournament. Root didn't have to do it because both Roy and Butler were scoring runs with him.

 

[LiveLoveABD]

Seems to me like the OP is hell bent on reopening discussions, discussed to death.

 

[Satan666]

Everyone knows my feelings for Team India but I really cant see Root anywhere close to Kohli. Admitedly I havent seen Root played live but from the little Ive seen from the feeds he seems a pretty good talent but Kohli is in a different class. Kohli finds gaps where there arent any, has all the shots in the book. Maybe with time Root can come up to par.

Way I see it Kohli is hands down the number one batsman in the world, only Smith comes close and even so he is miles away.

 

[stefan]

Neither kohli nor root is player of the tournament as far as I am concerned. Should go to a player whose side actually wins the tournament. So for me its badree all the way.