Ed Smith
Gaffer
Played some Cricket 19 tonight. Its in no way inferior to this. Probably a lot better tbf
Cricket 24 - General Discussion
- Thread starter asprin
- Start date
I have seen a lot of post about scripted wickets during bowling but nobody clearly explains what they are actually looking for. In my opinion whenever I am playing against the AI in whatever cricket game, the wickets will come scripted only. (In case of C26 as per the 'wicket chance' slider). I can get unscripted wicket or different game approach only in case of playing against another human player (pro-team as example).
DuneTiger
Associate Cricketer
The issue is there's no enjoyment in the fact that you can't set a batsmen up. Also I've had it numerous times where the game has decided you're getting a wicket and will nick off every ball of an over, no matter what you bowl and where you bowl it. I tried this once, I kept dropping the ball on purpose, and every single ball of an over was a nick to slip/keeper. Where is the fun in knowing that the game just decides "ok time for a wicket". There's no feeling of setting a batsmen up, or an actual player brain fade that causes them to lose their wicket.
I get it what you are trying to tell, for example you want to set up a batsman with out-swingers, then slipping in one in-swinger to get him trapped lbw. The catch here is 'setting up' is a psychological aspect which works on a human opponent mind but I am not sure if any in-game AI would be so advanced to replicate that human element. There should be some other ideas on how to feel it less scripted. With the new game over the horizon, we can provide some proper suggestions.
Exactly this.. I had this convo with some of the guys at BA around this.
Very difficult to out think “code”
My way to tackle this would be for players skills to be dynamic throughout a game and players to have perks at different tiers which affect every single ball. Also, confidence has to play a bigger part, it can't be 4 different tiers of red, yellow, green and light green. It should be set to a percentage with 100 being absolutely settled. Different mentalities of batsmen should settle in different ways , 1 batsman may need to hit a boundary to get going, one might need to get battered on ball 10 times. We should get a little notification in game of when they move up in confidence to acknowledge that.
Regarding bowling, like you said, we'll never have a good enough AI that can be manipulated. The only way to combat this is to almost have a game within a game when bowling. Dot balls should always bring pressure, batters should be able to counter attack and there needs to be matchup advantages just like we see in real cricket
Here's a scenario: Let's say we have an 80ovr bowler bowling to an 80ovr batter. A good over with a couple play and misses could see the dynamic overall turn it into an 82ovr bowler to a 78ovr batter thus creating a greater likelihood of a wicket. The alternative is that I as the batter decide to counter, I play with extra risk and suddenly hit 2 4s. The bowlers overall drops and my batters confidence rises increasing my batters skills. I've flipped the game in a sense and now my overall goes up and the bowlers goes down. Now the opposition may feel they need to change bowler. My batter may have a perk that means his batting skills reduce by 3 when facing leg spin. The opposition has a leg spinner who's skills increase by 2 when bowling on dusty wickets. Now you have a tactical element where there is a matchup advantage for one team. I as the batter now must weigh up the risk of continuing to attack or to see out an over of the leg spinner.
Sorry for the long rant but I hope you get my point that there are ways to create context in sports games with the limited ability of the AI. People might not like it as it's a little gimmicky but that's fine.
BarestOfMargins
County Cricketer
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2015
I had spoke too soon, next session full of last ball boundaries, fielders watching the ball roll past them, unnecessary overthrows, setting off on runs just in time to carry the ball over the boundary rope etc
gkvarma18
International Cricketer
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2016
- Location
- Hyderabad , India
- Profile Flag
- India
- Online Cricket Games Owned
- Don Bradman Cricket 14 - Steam PC
We can enjoy batting and fielding animation styles in EA cricket 2004 , for Realistic weather and gameplay we have Ashes cricket 09. These 2 are best games among other good cricket games.
The bowling feeling unrewarding in tests in particular is nail on the head stuff. Where I find the game so frustrating
Thinking of tweaking ODI format to allow 2 innings of 50 overs but increasing max overs per bowler to be 12 rather than 10, and red ball/white kit, to give more of a test feel but without the lack of fun tests in the game
Thinking of tweaking ODI format to allow 2 innings of 50 overs but increasing max overs per bowler to be 12 rather than 10, and red ball/white kit, to give more of a test feel but without the lack of fun tests in the game
wasteyouryouth
Verified
Video games are like magic, we want to be tricked, even though we know it's all smoke and mirrors. What I'd say we're all looking for is immersion in the moment. A big factor in this comes from feeling like what we are doing is impacting the outcomes. To what extent can be different depending on the person. Varied expectations isn't simple for Big Ant to cater for.
Like @DuneTiger mentioned, when a batter keeps knicking until a catch is taken that makes a player feel like we have no impact on the outcome. The block-block-block-block-block-four instances. Being able to roll teams over with any old spinner. In the older games in ODIs, there was the '26th over smash' when the AI would slog everything for one over and then go back to normal. No matter how good or immersive other aspect of the games are, things like this undermine the overall experience significantly.
So, the first thing would be looking at these kinds of things like this, trying to improve or remove what causes them. If it can't be improved or removed as function of how the game works, then it needs to be a case of how can it be hidden more effectively.
To improve immersion I would say you look at what creates that sense of deeper engagement. For me it comes back to that feeling that what I do has an impact on what is happening. That my choices (and skill) matter and are rewarded or punished with consistency.
From the gameplay side it's having 'rules' that are clear and defined. There needs to be a strategic path for us to find and execute. If I can make informed choices about how to tackle a problem based on what the game is telling me I will feel like I have greater control. At the moment I can 'role-play' as though I'm following real-life tactics and hope the game responds but what's the point of ploughing on with the new ball, bowling my seamers, when at the back of mind I'm thinking 'there's a good chance I can be more successful bowling Joe Root?'
Match ups is a way I think could work by expanding on weaknesses that and proficiencies that are to some extent already in the game. I would be inclined bin skill points, beyond basic things like control or judgement go all in on proficiencies (and call them strengths and super strengths). Batter is weak against SLA, so I'm going to bowl a SLA bowler. Batter is strong against short pitched bowling, so I will pitch it up. That some of this is in the game already but you can't see during a match is such a frustration. That, to me, would be an easy way to at least give an illusion of immersion, whether the proficiencies matter or not. At least I might feel like there are some 'rules' to the game. I could probably write load more about how this could be deeper but I'm sure I already have.
Yes wickets come out of nowhere in real life, great balls get no reward, bad balls take wickets and I don't think having a system where match ups always work would be ideal but, in my opinion there needs to be something there that feedbacks to the player what you can do to succeed. If I bowl the AI out for 250 I need to know if that's good, bad or par for the course.
That connects to the other area of improving immersion through presentation. Commentary, crowd atmosphere, on-field noise and player behaviours need to match the action and build up situations. Sounds can work like music in a film and enhance the visuals enormously. You can indicate to the player that something is happening by increasing the chatter and shouts by the onfield players, making them quieter at periods of struggle. The crowd cheering as a bowling is running in when the action has become more intense, the crowd sounded like they couldn't care less when nothing is happening. Are these things just there for the cosmetic feeling of immersion (e.g. TV has commentary so the game should have commentary) or is there a purpose that enchances the actual gameplay? A few of us on here have said that, if possible, commentary could be you 'guide' that prods and pushes you. If the commentator says 'David Warner is weak against tall, blonde, fast medium right arm bowlers coming from around the wicket' that could be a useful bit of information as a player than telling me a single was run.
Then there's where the two meet. It's great having batters mocapped but I need to feel like a batter is more than just animations. If Harry Brook looks like Harry Brook but bats like KL Rahul the illusion falls apart. Personally, I'd prefer if there was one batting style but more diversity of how AI batters approach their innings. Equally, if there is going to be pre-determined passages of play or wickets, make them special and make it feel like a big moment. Harry Brook's dismissal yesterday was a great example of escalation. He'd got his hundred, got England into a winning position, decided to try and accelerate that. In that few minutes it felt like every ball could go for six, four or produce a wicket taking opportunity. Doesn't always happen but for players like Harry Brook or Rishabh Pant those moments feel more common.
I do think Big Ant have been innovative in the gameplay controls and camera options on offer to make the game feel immersive. Pro mode for batting is great, it doesn't quite hit as well for me with bowling. I also think there's an expectation, from a lot of the player base, that it should be presented like it is on TV. TV coverage is designed for an audience, so having a game presented to you in that way, when you're a participant, I would say, creates a disconnect (You may not have noticed it… but your brain did.) You wouldn't feel like as much of a badass in Doom, in my opinion, if it wasn't first person. I think it's difficult to create immersion when people are asking to be distanced from the action. Maybe I'm over-thinking that part.
Now, I don't think any of that is straightforward but it's a case of looking at the low-hanging fruit of what small improvements could be made. I've been banging on about having more information in a match to at least inform the strategic decisions we make since maybe Ashes 19. If I know what my player is good at and what my opponent is bad at, then I will more likely to feel like the decision I make could impact the gameplay.
I've not posted in a while so why not make it a lengthy ramble covering things that I've rambled about in length about before.
Ed Smith
Gaffer
Video games are like magic, we want to be tricked, even though we know it's all smoke and mirrors. What I'd say we're all looking for is immersion in the moment. A big factor in this comes from feeling like what we are doing is impacting the outcomes. To what extent can be different depending on the person. Varied expectations isn't simple for Big Ant to cater for.
Like @DuneTiger mentioned, when a batter keeps knicking until a catch is taken that makes a player feel like we have no impact on the outcome. The block-block-block-block-block-four instances. Being able to roll teams over with any old spinner. In the older games in ODIs, there was the '26th over smash' when the AI would slog everything for one over and then go back to normal. No matter how good or immersive other aspect of the games are, things like this undermine the overall experience significantly.
So, the first thing would be looking at these kinds of things like this, trying to improve or remove what causes them. If it can't be improved or removed as function of how the game works, then it needs to be a case of how can it be hidden more effectively.
To improve immersion I would say you look at what creates that sense of deeper engagement. For me it comes back to that feeling that what I do has an impact on what is happening. That my choices (and skill) matter and are rewarded or punished with consistency.
From the gameplay side it's having 'rules' that are clear and defined. There needs to be a strategic path for us to find and execute. If I can make informed choices about how to tackle a problem based on what the game is telling me I will feel like I have greater control. At the moment I can 'role-play' as though I'm following real-life tactics and hope the game responds but what's the point of ploughing on with the new ball, bowling my seamers, when at the back of mind I'm thinking 'there's a good chance I can be more successful bowling Joe Root?'
Match ups is a way I think could work by expanding on weaknesses that and proficiencies that are to some extent already in the game. I would be inclined bin skill points, beyond basic things like control or judgement go all in on proficiencies (and call them strengths and super strengths). Batter is weak against SLA, so I'm going to bowl a SLA bowler. Batter is strong against short pitched bowling, so I will pitch it up. That some of this is in the game already but you can't see during a match is such a frustration. That, to me, would be an easy way to at least give an illusion of immersion, whether the proficiencies matter or not. At least I might feel like there are some 'rules' to the game. I could probably write load more about how this could be deeper but I'm sure I already have.
Yes wickets come out of nowhere in real life, great balls get no reward, bad balls take wickets and I don't think having a system where match ups always work would be ideal but, in my opinion there needs to be something there that feedbacks to the player what you can do to succeed. If I bowl the AI out for 250 I need to know if that's good, bad or par for the course.
That connects to the other area of improving immersion through presentation. Commentary, crowd atmosphere, on-field noise and player behaviours need to match the action and build up situations. Sounds can work like music in a film and enhance the visuals enormously. You can indicate to the player that something is happening by increasing the chatter and shouts by the onfield players, making them quieter at periods of struggle. The crowd cheering as a bowling is running in when the action has become more intense, the crowd sounded like they couldn't care less when nothing is happening. Are these things just there for the cosmetic feeling of immersion (e.g. TV has commentary so the game should have commentary) or is there a purpose that enchances the actual gameplay? A few of us on here have said that, if possible, commentary could be you 'guide' that prods and pushes you. If the commentator says 'David Warner is weak against tall, blonde, fast medium right arm bowlers coming from around the wicket' that could be a useful bit of information as a player than telling me a single was run.
Then there's where the two meet. It's great having batters mocapped but I need to feel like a batter is more than just animations. If Harry Brook looks like Harry Brook but bats like KL Rahul the illusion falls apart. Personally, I'd prefer if there was one batting style but more diversity of how AI batters approach their innings. Equally, if there is going to be pre-determined passages of play or wickets, make them special and make it feel like a big moment. Harry Brook's dismissal yesterday was a great example of escalation. He'd got his hundred, got England into a winning position, decided to try and accelerate that. In that few minutes it felt like every ball could go for six, four or produce a wicket taking opportunity. Doesn't always happen but for players like Harry Brook or Rishabh Pant those moments feel more common.
I do think Big Ant have been innovative in the gameplay controls and camera options on offer to make the game feel immersive. Pro mode for batting is great, it doesn't quite hit as well for me with bowling. I also think there's an expectation, from a lot of the player base, that it should be presented like it is on TV. TV coverage is designed for an audience, so having a game presented to you in that way, when you're a participant, I would say, creates a disconnect (You may not have noticed it… but your brain did.) You wouldn't feel like as much of a badass in Doom, in my opinion, if it wasn't first person. I think it's difficult to create immersion when people are asking to be distanced from the action. Maybe I'm over-thinking that part.
Now, I don't think any of that is straightforward but it's a case of looking at the low-hanging fruit of what small improvements could be made. I've been banging on about having more information in a match to at least inform the strategic decisions we make since maybe Ashes 19. If I know what my player is good at and what my opponent is bad at, then I will more likely to feel like the decision I make could impact the gameplay.
I've not posted in a while so why not make it a lengthy ramble covering things that I've rambled about in length about before.
This is more words than my last 500 posts combined. Welcome back
wasteyouryouth
Verified
With the website playing up I thought it had posted a draft, but nah, that's just my 'short' version.This is more words than my last 500 posts combined. Welcome back
drastsab
Club Captain
- Joined
- May 4, 2016
Ai cant play spinners. I think spinners are overpowered. Even hardest - Legend diff
