15 August Independence day - India* 61 years of Freedom..

Bloody hell zMario, ease up!!! Your just trolling the boards at the moment, trying to pick a fight with as many Indians as you can.

Can't you just be happy that you got rid of those bloody, big-headed, oppresive b*******, the English :p

Tom, dissappointed. What have you started?
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Remind me never to have a bit of fun around here :rolleyes: Anyway I didn't start anything.
 
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pal said:
No, he's simply telling you that your melodramatic sensitivities have led you to ignore the fact that hundreds of thousands of Hindus and Sikhs were also brutally slaughtered by Muslims during the partition and that there were no clean hands involved. None of the sides were innocent. It was an unfortunate time.
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Wow, even I didn't know about this anyway could you provide some more information pal, links or something, I could use it for my assignment and a bit of background reading.
 
Oh dear oh dear.

If I was to continue to speak, the many Indians on this forum would be shamed.

However, since you feel we need to continue this, I will, if the moderators will allow me to, as what I will speak of will bring SHAME to many Indians here.

zMario added 10 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

Before somebody approves or doesn't approve discussion on this, I'm going to say one thing.

Almost all the movement was from India to Pakistan.

That is, the Muslims were coming in trains from India to Pakistan. There were very few Hindus in present-day Pakistan, so that is why many trains did not go from Lahore or Rawalpindi to India.

While the trains from India were going to Lahore, they would be stopped at a station.

When the trains were stopped at the station, the Hindus and (possibly Sikhs joined in because Hindus were also attacking Sikhs at the time, although Hindus prefered Sikhs rather than Muslims) would tell the passengers they have arrived in Lahore.

Once the passengers were getting out, massacure. The Hindus killed and murdered every man, WOMAN, CHILDREN, and BABY. Once they did that, they put the Muslims back into the train, and sent it to Lahore.

Families would be waiting in Lahore for their famly members. When the crew at the Lahore station opened the doors, bodies and blood fell out. Little children's heads would be on ground. Pregneant women were dead. Many were *****.

WC, you certainly have an attitude problem. But as I write this, I cry, for what happened during the partition.
 
Almost all the movement was from India to Pakistan.
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This is utter baloney. The 1951 Census clearly indicates that 7,226,000 Muslims went to Pakistan from India, compared to the 7,249,000 Hindus and Sikhs who went to India from Pakistan.

Here's a paper from the London School of Economics, for your convenience: www.lse.ac.uk/collections/asiaResearchCentre/pdf/WorkingPaper/ARCWP4MehtabKarim.pdf

Visaria found that 4.7 million displaced persons had originated in West Pakistan while an additional 2.5 million had originated in East Pakistan, while 0.05 million did not specify their origin.
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At a minimum, 7.2 million Hindus and Sikhs moved from Pakistan to India.

I am not going to enter into an argument concerning this issue, not if it makes you cry. Sure, I do get angry when I think about the Hindus and Sikhs who were slaughtered on their way to India, but I don't cry. Atrocities did occur on both sides. They are well documented. There is no use trying to absolve either side of its crimes. I don't want to turn this thread into a flame war, but I wanted to point out that absolute falsity. If you disagree with me on that point, you would be better served contacting the London School of Economics with your disagreements, than responding here.

I understand that this is an extremely emotional issue for most subcontinental members here. I will refrain from engaging in an affecting argument and I request you to do the same. If you disagree with my statistics, again, you would be better off emailing the LSE about Professor Karim's work.
 
pal said:
This is utter baloney. The 1951 Census clearly indicates that 7,226,000 Muslims went to Pakistan from India, compared to the 7,249,000 Hindus and Sikhs who went to India from Pakistan.

Here's a paper from the London School of Economics, for your convenience: www.lse.ac.uk/collections/asiaResearchCentre/pdf/WorkingPaper/ARCWP4MehtabKarim.pdf



At a minimum, 7.2 million Hindus and Sikhs moved from Pakistan to India.

I am not going to enter into an argument concerning this issue, not if it makes you cry. Sure, I do get angry when I think about the Hindus and Sikhs who were slaughtered on their way to India, but I don't cry. Atrocities did occur on both sides. They are well documented. There is no use trying to absolve either side of its crimes. I don't want to turn this thread into a flame war, but I wanted to point out that absolute falsity. If you disagree with me on that point, you would be better served contacting the London School of Economics with your disagreements, than responding here.

I understand that this is an extremely emotional issue for most subcontinental members here. I will refrain from engaging in an affecting argument and I request you to do the same. If you disagree with my statistics, again, you would be better off emailing the LSE about Professor Karim's work.
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Sorry, I should have made myself clear. I meant that almost all the movement that was from India to Pakistan resulted in many casulties.

I apologize.

I am not doubting that many Hindus went to India from Pakistan, but we did not stop their trains en route and murder everyone and send the trains forward to Delhi.

Let me give you another example. The Gujarat Riots, in Ahmedabad, 2002. This was only 6 years ago.

The same things that occured on those trains in 1947 occured again, to Muslims.

Here is the wikipedia article if you wish to educate yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence
 
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well the same thing just happened in gujarat in 2008 about 15 days ago and this time guess who it was?????????
even doctors were killed, what do they do wrong
i'm not saying that it's only muslims i think it's both sides hindus and muslims they should stop killing eachother and be friends like US and Canada

anyways i thought this topic was of india's freedom not hindu and muslims
 
zMario said:
Sorry, I should have made myself clear. I meant that almost all the movement that was from India to Pakistan resulted in many casulties.

I apologize.

I am not doubting that many Hindus went to India from Pakistan, but we did not stop their trains en route and murder everyone and send the trains forward to Delhi.

Let me give you another example. The Gujarat Riots, in Ahmedabad, 2002. This was only 6 years ago.

The same things that occured on those trains in 1947 occured again, to Muslims.

Here is the wikipedia article if you wish to educate yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Gujarat_violence
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You know, all this train sending episode, just get over it. Both countries have had their fare shair of movies showing all of it which they supposed happened. There have been many movies around here showing counter violence, depicting the exact train incident but from reverse parties, and I'm sure there have been there like that, so I wouldn't blame you, but it isn't just because you weren't told that it didn't happen.

We could go on and on and on about the issue, but the point is we shouldn't be discussing who was good or who was bad.

Kshitiz_Indian added 1 Minutes and 20 Seconds later...

zMario said:
Oh dear oh dear.

If I was to continue to speak, the many Indians on this forum would be shamed.

However, since you feel we need to continue this, I will, if the moderators will allow me to, as what I will speak of will bring SHAME to many Indians here.

zMario added 10 Minutes and 42 Seconds later...

Before somebody approves or doesn't approve discussion on this, I'm going to say one thing.

Almost all the movement was from India to Pakistan.

That is, the Muslims were coming in trains from India to Pakistan. There were very few Hindus in present-day Pakistan, so that is why many trains did not go from Lahore or Rawalpindi to India.

While the trains from India were going to Lahore, they would be stopped at a station.

When the trains were stopped at the station, the Hindus and (possibly Sikhs joined in because Hindus were also attacking Sikhs at the time, although Hindus prefered Sikhs rather than Muslims) would tell the passengers they have arrived in Lahore.

Once the passengers were getting out, massacure. The Hindus killed and murdered every man, WOMAN, CHILDREN, and BABY. Once they did that, they put the Muslims back into the train, and sent it to Lahore.

Families would be waiting in Lahore for their famly members. When the crew at the Lahore station opened the doors, bodies and blood fell out. Little children's heads would be on ground. Pregneant women were dead. Many were *****.

WC, you certainly have an attitude problem. But as I write this, I cry, for what happened during the partition.
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The ways you described, yes, indeed marvelous, and do sound shameful to anyone hearing, but on the other hand this happened on both parties so it isn't as partial and one sided as you might think. There's an endless web of how this started and how it came to this, but I'm sure we can't be discussing that here, definitely not here...
 
If you wish to argue over the histories of India and Pakistan, please find a political forum to discuss it in. This argument has gone far enough, and in the birthday forum this should only be to celebrate India's independence.
 
aus5892 said:
If you wish to argue over the histories of India and Pakistan, please find a political forum to discuss it in. This argument has gone far enough, and in the birthday forum this should only be to celebrate India's independence.
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Since you are a staff member, could you possible delete the above posts by zMario (and pal's which were in reply, although he just refutes zMario's argument) because its very disturbing to read, and those who come to the thread to wish each other for independence will find their minds disturbed reading these things (according to me, past is past. We are not going to move a hair by drooling over it).
 
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