2023 ICC Cricket World Cup (October/November) - India

[wasteyouryouth]

Mate, either you are blind or you have unparalleled love for him. Its common sense that Bavuma wouldn't have made it to the team had he not been captain.

By stating the post as pathetic and showcasing yourself as a Black supporter, you are merely placating yourself as a Bavuma sympathiser. Helps you grab eyeballs, but then that's fine by me.

I will stick by what I say and ain't going to waver from my stance. On the contrary,I could very well start calling your posts as pathetic-as they don't even look at the other side of things.

You need to stop digging. You're very close to saying something that's more than just stupid and ignorant.

 

[icyman]

You need to stop digging. You're very close to saying something that's more than just stupid and ignorant.

I state it, as I see it. Bavuma gets the love and sympathy just cause he is Black. Black or White or whatever he identifies as, he deserves the brick bats he is getting.

Check out Imran Tahir's statement today- or do you think he is ignorant and stupid as well?

Refer my post in the SA Team discussion- how many of us berated Babar, his batting, his captaincy? Did anyone stand in defence of Babar and call out others for doing so?

As for digging, I am merely making a point here. If people don't like it, it is fine. However,that doesn't stop me from making my views known. Some members put up unnecessarily long posts in support of "color/race" they seem to feel they are the 'Know it Alls', it really isn't the case here.

 

[Skankhunt_42]

C'mon mate! Bavuma did miss some opportunities but calling him utter shyte captain is beyond stupidity. And what shyte is this, with sympathy because he is a man of color? One who dragged the game to 48th over with his troops after quickfire 70 run first wicket stand, worth applauding. AUS were sweating out there for sure and another 30 odd runs would've triggered an AUS choke who knows. He is one of those better captains, this WC.

 

[harishankar]

I’m not getting into that race debate but if he was not 100% fit he shouldn’t have played, especially considering his personal form with the bat. SA essentially played with one less batsman. Also too tentative about setting attacking fields when defending a low total. It doesn’t matter losing in 35th or 48th over in a semi final but the attempt to go all out wasn’t quite there.

 

[Skankhunt_42]

And about Babar..where do I even begin. He is an ideal definition of statpadder. Most captains "learns" captaincy while leading PAK team these days...such is life really but he was never a leader to begin with. Rizwan had potential which is ruined by the system.

 

[harishankar]

C'mon mate! Bavuma did miss some opportunities but calling him utter shyte captain is beyond stupidity. And what shyte is this, with sympathy because he is a man of color? One who dragged the game to 48th over with his troops after quickfire 70 run first wicket stand, worth applauding. AUS were sweating out there for sure and another 30 odd runs would've triggered an AUS choke who knows. He is one of those better captains, this WC.

Losing in the 48th over or 35th does not matter in a knock out. He didn’t attack enough or push the advantage when those wickets fell. Too tentative.

 

[Skankhunt_42]

I’m not getting into that race debate but if he was not 100% fit he shouldn’t have played, especially considering his personal form with the bat. SA essentially played with one less batsman. Also too tentative about setting attacking fields when defending a low total. It doesn’t matter losing in 35th or 48th over in a semi final but the attempt to go all out wasn’t quite there.

Agree partially! Reeza could've played with Markram leading. Don't see the intent lacking there though. He had done everything correct in the context of game besides,
1. Not bringing Maharaj to take chance during PP.
2. Not applying slip and short leg while Gerald was bowling body line.
3. Allowed openners to pump runs during PP that prod him to be tentative throughout the game.

You have 140 odd to defend with 36 overs to go. You are bound to feel pressure. In addition, fielders and keeper didn't support the way they supposed to

 

[harishankar]

Agree partially! Reeza could've played with Markram leading. Don't see the intent lacking there though. He had done everything correct in the context of game besides,
1. Not bringing Maharaj to take chance during PP.
2. Not applying slip and short leg while Gerald was bowling body line.
3. Allowed openners to pump runs during PP that prod him to be tentative throughout the game.

You have 140 odd to defend with 36 overs to go. You are bound to feel pressure. In addition, fielders and keeper didn't support the way they supposed to

At 140 to go with 36 overs, he had nothing to lose and should have gone all out with attacking Fields, because Australia were clear favorites. The two spinners should have bowled to test match fields challenging the Aussies to hit big because there was quite a bit of turn. Yes, the missed opportunities didn’t help either.

 

[Bevab]

Mate, either you are blind or you have unparalleled love for him. Its common sense that Bavuma wouldn't have made it to the team had he not been captain.

By stating the post as pathetic and showcasing yourself as a Black supporter, you are merely placating yourself as a Bavuma sympathiser. Helps you grab eyeballs, but then that's fine by me.

I will stick by what I say and ain't going to waver from my stance. On the contrary,I could very well start calling your posts as pathetic-as they don't even look at the other side of things.

You have been presented with multiple facts by several people on this and you’ve willingly chosen to not respond to them and instead take potshots at a player with an obvious agenda and term anyone that calls you on it with an entirely different narrative.

But I guess it’s easier to do what you’re doing.

 

[Bevab]

I also think Reeza is benefitting a lot from the “you are perceived as better if you don’t play” syndrome. He’s a fine batter and slogger and should have played ahead of Bavuma since the latter wasn’t fit but he isn’t likely to survive the test match like bowling in the powerplay given his track record. His presence wouldn’t have made much difference to the scoreboard.

 

[Bevab]

I state it, as I see it. Bavuma gets the love and sympathy just cause he is Black. Black or White or whatever he identifies as, he deserves the brick bats he is getting.

Check out Imran Tahir's statement today- or do you think he is ignorant and stupid as well?

Refer my post in the SA Team discussion- how many of us berated Babar, his batting, his captaincy? Did anyone stand in defence of Babar and call out others for doing so?

As for digging, I am merely making a point here. If people don't like it, it is fine. However,that doesn't stop me from making my views known. Some members put up unnecessarily long posts in support of "color/race" they seem to feel they are the 'Know it Alls', it really isn't the case here.

I’ll give the benefit of the doubt one last time and go over all this once again.

Imran Tahir’s points are not in any way representative of your views as a whole. All he did was criticise the passion whilst batting and tactics towards the end of the second innings, both of which have been echoed by multiple people here. Now, let’s go over all of what you’ve said.

1. Temba Bavuma wouldn’t even be captain of SA-C.

I called it pathetic and I still stand by it. At the time he was appointed as the white ball captain, he had won both of the domestic white ball tournaments as captain whilst being the second highest run-scorer in the T20 competition. He also won the FC tournament as the captain. It was a strong domestic side but by no means were they overwhelming favourites for any of the competitions. Stating that the best captain in domestic cricket at that point wouldn’t have even been the captain of the third string SA side is utterly delusional. It’s also hilarious that you never mention Bavuma’s impact as a leader in the dressing room in any of your posts while multiple people have praised it and commended him for maintaining it in the face of a tumultuous past few years for South African cricket on and off the field. Instead all you’ve done is attribute QdK’s retirement to pursue T20 money as down to Bavuma ostracising him from the squad when there’s no evidence of that. He is no Siya Kholisi in terms of inspiration or Graeme Smith in terms of tactics but he’s a solid enough captain.

2. Bavuma wouldn’t have played if he wasn’t the captain.

Yet again this is proven wrong by a simple look at the numbers from 2022 till the WC. Bavuma averages the highest among the Proteas regulars at a solid SR. He was one of the, if not the best batter in the side. He was also the best player of spin on paper in this side and his main role was to be the anchor accumulator around whom others would hit. Reeza is a slogger who has been inconsistent for most of his career, that’s not what the best XI for this side needs in terms of roles. Bavuma’s form was shite in this tournament but he isn’t the first nor will he be the last player to play well in the lead-up and then lose form during the tournament. Nearly every team would play their regular in a tournament and hope they get back to form instead of chopping or switching things up at the last moment.

I also think this argument is slightly stupid because it terribly understates the impact of a captain in the team. Your leadership capabilities should also matter when you’re being selected in the team as the captain and the only reason why Bavuma is having this argument thrown at him is because of obvious reasons.

3. Bavuma wouldn‘t have played if not for fulfilling quota requirements.

In addition to the previous point about Bavuma‘s form leading into the tournament, I’ve also shown that the quota requirements aren’t a thing for World Cups anymore and that it is also only a soft cap that the national side has consistently failed to meet on a per season basis in many years. This entire premise thus falls apart.

4. Bavuma gets the love and sympathy just cause he is Black.

If you had actually bothered to read through most of the thread you would have noticed that everyone was critical of him playing despite not being fit and of his tactical decisions. Nobody was sympathising with him due to his race and they were calling him out for a poor showing. As @Skankhunt_42 pointed out, his side did nearly take the Aussies all the way despite having a low total and that wasn’t even expressed yesterday amidst all the blame. The only support for him seen was because you made the previous three outlandish claims out of which none are based in reality.

5. I have unparalleled love for Bavuma/I am a sympathiser.

This is easily disproven with just the simple fact that I’ve advocated for dropping him from the test side on multiple occasions in the past prior to his resurgence while the team kept playing him because the side lacked experience elsewhere and he was going back to domestic cricket and smashing the rest anyways. If I did have a bias towards this bloke I wouldn’t have been calling for his test spot to be in question for a long period of time.

6. Some members put up unnecessarily long posts in support of "color/race" they seem to feel they are the 'Know it Alls', it really isn't the case here.

All I’ve seen is you trying to frantically grab every talking point possible to throw at anyone who rightfully points out your questionable stance on this matter. Nobody making any post here has claimed to be the expert on anything related to South African cricket or society, you’re the one awarding them such titles in your sarcastic manner as a deflection. You’ve also called anyone stating simple facts as sympathisers. You’re yet to actually respond to any of the facts with anything other than “hurr durr black sympathiser/Bavuma lover”.

7. Did anyone stand in defence of Babar and call out others for doing so?

I literally did this here. Funnily enough it was you who rose up in arms against it.

Stating that Bavuma’s captaincy was worse than Babar’s is also untrue, the former’s side has overachieved and outperformed expectations whilst the latter’s side has underperformed by some margin. Half the reason why there’s been an element of frustration at their exit is because this side was playing well contrary to pre-tournament expectations and looked likely to be the first South African side in WC history to make the final. If you had gone back to the start of the year/end of last year (can’t remember the exact timeline) and told this side that was at risk of having to play in the qualifiers that they would not only qualify beforehand and finish second in the league stage alongside thrashing the defending champions while only losing in the semis towards the end to Australia despite missing their best white ball pacer for the whole tournament and their captain for a few games, they would have laughed at you.

 

[Bigby Wolf]

 

[Bigby Wolf]

I fear the same will happen on Sunday with Rohit Sharma.

 

[asprin]

Heard that Richard will be one of the on-field umpire for the Final............

That sets off a load of unpleasant memories

 

[icyman]

Stating that the best captain in domestic cricket at that point wouldn’t have even been the captain of the third string SA side is utterly delusional.

Doesn't happen with other countries as well. No reason why he should be preferred if his team has won everything in its way. His own form and tactics need to be considered as well.

I also think this argument is slightly stupid because it terribly understates the impact of a captain in the team. Your leadership capabilities should also matter when you’re being selected in the team as the captain and the only reason why Bavuma is having this argument thrown at him is because of obvious reasons.

Bavuma's leadership is laughable. Haven't heard anyone sing accolades of him. The mere fact that a half injured person wanted to be at the helm in a KO game is questionable. It's a weird hunger to be the 1st SA captain to win a World Cup KO.

Also, as a captain, either your captaincy or your form should be good. In this case, it was neither. We've had captains like Ganguly who have been out of form for lengthy periods, but their tactics were spot on.

I’ve also shown that the quota requirements aren’t a thing for World Cups

You've merely quoted an older article. The one I mentioned is the latest and still talks about the quota requirements at large.

his side did nearly take the Aussies all the way despite having a low total

His side. His tactics were weird. Single handedly destroyed by allowing them to take singles and close the gap.

This is easily disproven with just the simple fact that I’ve advocated for dropping him from the test side on multiple occasions in the past prior to his resurgence

What an utterly preposterous point. Test side form vs ODI form? Wonder what you're smoking!

Funnily enough it was you who rose up in arms against it.

Me?

I did say Babar was poor and he seemed lost. I comment as I see it.

Stating that Bavuma’s captaincy was worse than Babar’s is also untrue, the former’s side has overachieved and outperformed expectations whilst the latter’s side has underperformed by some margin

Let's be clear on one thing. This was a South African side led jointly by Bavuma and Markram. The side seemed to respond more to Aiden Markram whenever he took charge. Their path to success can be attributed to the wins scored by Markram.

Bavuma never really seemed to make tactical changes. Babar was marginally better, given that his own batting form was better than Temba's.