5th Test: England vs Australia at the Brit Oval
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pcfan123
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400 is not chase-able on this pitch. Have you been watching? Swann will eat them alive
D
Dutch
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Ah, but can they create a draw, which in their eyes is enough? I have seen too many England collapses and too many Aussie fightbacks to put this one in the bag and until the proverbial Lady in the Big Dress is putting away her music stand and collecting her fee and ordering a taxi out of there, only then will I be at ease.
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Dutch
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Well, I shall remain my own sceptical self and celebrate victory only when its there! P.S. utterly off-topic but I was hoping to be a smart-ass, sophisticated, clever-type with my own signature, but the pictures not showing. Anyone offer some help??
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pcfan123
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spoken like a true England fan. However if we bat until the 3rd session and Oz bat 6 1/2 sessions for a draw then they deserve it, and our bowlers should be shot after that, or at least put out to pasture.
Looks like Broad has come good just when it matters, lucky to still be in the side mind but looks like the gamble of retaining him worked way better than including Ramprakash would have.
And what a turnaround, 73/0 to 160 all out. I said the Test at the Oval in 2005 involved three innings of two halves, starting well and ending badly or vice versa, and this Test is no different - albeit somewhat lower totals and more dramatic. The way the pitch is playing you have to think the aussies will have to obliterate the England batting order this morning. Even if England only add another 50-75 runs, that would set a target of 281-306 which should be very difficult for the aussies to score.
Maybe England got a lucky wicket or two, a bat-pad that never was, but then we got three no ball dismissals so the aussies had better not whinge too much as they could be in even deeper dodo doodoo if we'd scored more runs. Pitch looks as if it will not play anywhere near as well as first thought and England 176/2 looked. Since then England scored 156/8 and 58/3, the aussies 160 all out.
Strauss - well played captain, while England were losing wickets you kept your head. 19 more runs and you'll be on 50 average for the series and should we win, then you'll prove all those doubters wrong about your captaincy. I thought the Clarke wicket was good thinking,
Cook - lucky boy to still be in the side, probably should be left out for the tour party but I doubt the selectors will despite a series average of just 24.67
Bell - should have gone on in his 1st innings, but two fifties is better than most England batsmen in the series and 72 may prove the top score in the match. 28 average and a possible weakness picked up on by the aussies may see Bell dropped
Collingwood - continued a poor end to the series, 3x50 in the first two Tests, HS of 24 in the last three. He joins Bell, Bopara and Cook in averaging under 30 in the series - and will probably joing at least Cook in touring nonetheless.
Trott - so far so good, beside the error of departing his crease in the 1st innings which is more forgiveable in a one dayer than Test, excellent fielding aside. Let's hope he adds another 20-40 runs to his score and secures a spot in the tour party, if he doesn't reach 19 then you can add him to those who averaged under 30 in the series.
Prior - has kept tidily enough, averaging mid-30s and should at least put the keeper debate on snooze for the time being. No doubt the Readites, Daviesites and Fosterites are just biding their time, waiting for an error or two to pounce on, or a low score or two.
Flintoff - bowled ok, but lacked penetration as he often has done in his Test career (13 overs for one wicket while they were dropping like flies)
Broad - heading for MOTM with his wickets, his first 5wi that won't end in an innings defeat for England. Very lucky still to be in the side, at least one or two of those who could and should have been dropped repaid the faith shown in them, unlike Cook, Bell, Collingwood and Harmison. From a poor start he could end up averaging more with bat than ball, and with a bowling average under 30. Let's hope he backs this performance up with a 2nd innings show just to prove this wasn't a one-off. One word of caution, the proof of the pudding will come on a better batting track than this. The last 23 wickets have fallen for 374 runs and at 16.3 each of which Broad has taken 'only' five, so bowling is not exactly demanding of the bowlers at the moment with scores of 400+
His last two bowls have taken his series wickets up to a reasonable 17, add that to 200 runs and we just need a bit of improvement and he could be a very good number eight for us.
Swann - another come good story, with a little help from umpires and pitch. Still a disappointing series so far with his average still over 44, he's so far matched Giles' 10 wickets but unlike Giles should get to bowl at the aussies in the final Test 2nd innings. Despite being a passenger most of the series, his two 4wis have contributed to two wins and his batting has saved England a few times - 186 runs at 31.00 is higher than a fair few of our batsmen.
Anderson - first career duck, thank fick he wasn't used as nightwatchman (suggestion Trott declined the invitation, good man) Didn't bowl that badly, but his return continues the trend I mentioned of an up and down series. Could do with a good return 2nd innings or his average could remain over 40 when it should be under 30 (for the series)
Harmison - returned with high expectation from some, delivered nothing worth writing home about bar a moments hope in the previous Test when he took an early aussie wicket. Didn't bowl enough to be criticised this Test, but has done little to justify inclusion either. Maybe this will be his last Test for England, can't see him touring and hopefully the selectors will take these two non-performances and close the file on him for keeps. He's done more with the bat than he's done with the ball, another who may well average more than some of our batsmen who often seem undroppable.
Morning session crucial, it's up to the aussies to take early wickets. Lose Trott and Strauss early on and it could be game on, but I trust Prior, Flintoff, Broad and Swann could muster 30+ runs between us. Even if we were bowled out for under 100, I don't think that would improve the aussie chances of winning, merely reinforce the pitch getting harder to bat on and make even 150-200 look hard to get when England are already more than that in front. I can't help thinking of the BBC 606-er who wrote off England's chances of taking 20 wickets in this Test. Must have been based on the 1st day close of play score or the aussies being none down at the break in play
Owzat added 19 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...
I will refer you to the Test between England and Sri Lanka where England reputedly dropped NINE catches. 230 is chasable, even on a really tough pitch. Doesn't take many missed chances, much bad bowling (which England can easily manage) or much of a batting partnership to get there. A streaky or well fought for 50 from one or more of Katich, Ponting, Clarke, Hussey, North or Watson who could all manage it, and only a couple of partnerships of 60-80 and 230 doesn't look too daunting.
But of course the key to how many the aussies may get is mostly going to be gauged by how many England get 2nd innings and how comfortably. In my mind England getting bowled out for 150 might be best for England, leave over 300 to get batting last on a pitch where 150 and 160 were the last two totals on a deteriorating pitch. Shows how crucial the toss was, only ONCE in the last two Ashes series in England has the side batting first LOST - England at Headingley. So those who criticised Strauss' decision to bat should really have backed him as it has been only poor batting or bowling from England that has cost us, not batting first. I'd rather our captain was brave and batted first and got knocked over than let the opposition bat us out of the game by worrying about being bowled out cheaply batting first.
Now we can only hope, should we win, that the selectors make difficult decisions for the winter, difficult but the right ones. Anderson, Broad, Flintoff, Harmison and Swann all average between 30 and 35, obviously Flintoff has retired so England need to rethink five bowler policy as well as the make-up of the bowling attack. As for batting :
- Since his hundred against West Indies, Cook has scored 222 runs @ 24.67.
- Since his 199 against South Africa, Bell has scored 354 runs @ 22.15 and his career average is now under 40
- Since his hundred against West Indies, Collingwood has scored 327 runs @ 29.73
Little wonder England have collapsed for 81, 51 and 102 in the past 24 months, batsmen who generally get picked all the time going through spells of poor form so often that the batting order is fragile. Those aren't really short periods, enough time for a batsman in poor form to score 220-360 runs at a fairly poor average. For me the worrying problem is batsmen come in a play too many shots too early, show poor shot selection and play too wide or too near (play at too many balls they should leave) and when they do get in, they get themselves out. Consequently they go through bad spells of form, or is it just they need a poor bowling attack every second or third series to get easy runs, a hundred or two and their struggles in these kind of series is forgotten as their average is bolstered.
And what a turnaround, 73/0 to 160 all out. I said the Test at the Oval in 2005 involved three innings of two halves, starting well and ending badly or vice versa, and this Test is no different - albeit somewhat lower totals and more dramatic. The way the pitch is playing you have to think the aussies will have to obliterate the England batting order this morning. Even if England only add another 50-75 runs, that would set a target of 281-306 which should be very difficult for the aussies to score.
Maybe England got a lucky wicket or two, a bat-pad that never was, but then we got three no ball dismissals so the aussies had better not whinge too much as they could be in even deeper dodo doodoo if we'd scored more runs. Pitch looks as if it will not play anywhere near as well as first thought and England 176/2 looked. Since then England scored 156/8 and 58/3, the aussies 160 all out.
Strauss - well played captain, while England were losing wickets you kept your head. 19 more runs and you'll be on 50 average for the series and should we win, then you'll prove all those doubters wrong about your captaincy. I thought the Clarke wicket was good thinking,
Cook - lucky boy to still be in the side, probably should be left out for the tour party but I doubt the selectors will despite a series average of just 24.67
Bell - should have gone on in his 1st innings, but two fifties is better than most England batsmen in the series and 72 may prove the top score in the match. 28 average and a possible weakness picked up on by the aussies may see Bell dropped
Collingwood - continued a poor end to the series, 3x50 in the first two Tests, HS of 24 in the last three. He joins Bell, Bopara and Cook in averaging under 30 in the series - and will probably joing at least Cook in touring nonetheless.
Trott - so far so good, beside the error of departing his crease in the 1st innings which is more forgiveable in a one dayer than Test, excellent fielding aside. Let's hope he adds another 20-40 runs to his score and secures a spot in the tour party, if he doesn't reach 19 then you can add him to those who averaged under 30 in the series.
Prior - has kept tidily enough, averaging mid-30s and should at least put the keeper debate on snooze for the time being. No doubt the Readites, Daviesites and Fosterites are just biding their time, waiting for an error or two to pounce on, or a low score or two.
Flintoff - bowled ok, but lacked penetration as he often has done in his Test career (13 overs for one wicket while they were dropping like flies)
Broad - heading for MOTM with his wickets, his first 5wi that won't end in an innings defeat for England. Very lucky still to be in the side, at least one or two of those who could and should have been dropped repaid the faith shown in them, unlike Cook, Bell, Collingwood and Harmison. From a poor start he could end up averaging more with bat than ball, and with a bowling average under 30. Let's hope he backs this performance up with a 2nd innings show just to prove this wasn't a one-off. One word of caution, the proof of the pudding will come on a better batting track than this. The last 23 wickets have fallen for 374 runs and at 16.3 each of which Broad has taken 'only' five, so bowling is not exactly demanding of the bowlers at the moment with scores of 400+
His last two bowls have taken his series wickets up to a reasonable 17, add that to 200 runs and we just need a bit of improvement and he could be a very good number eight for us.
Swann - another come good story, with a little help from umpires and pitch. Still a disappointing series so far with his average still over 44, he's so far matched Giles' 10 wickets but unlike Giles should get to bowl at the aussies in the final Test 2nd innings. Despite being a passenger most of the series, his two 4wis have contributed to two wins and his batting has saved England a few times - 186 runs at 31.00 is higher than a fair few of our batsmen.
Anderson - first career duck, thank fick he wasn't used as nightwatchman (suggestion Trott declined the invitation, good man) Didn't bowl that badly, but his return continues the trend I mentioned of an up and down series. Could do with a good return 2nd innings or his average could remain over 40 when it should be under 30 (for the series)
Harmison - returned with high expectation from some, delivered nothing worth writing home about bar a moments hope in the previous Test when he took an early aussie wicket. Didn't bowl enough to be criticised this Test, but has done little to justify inclusion either. Maybe this will be his last Test for England, can't see him touring and hopefully the selectors will take these two non-performances and close the file on him for keeps. He's done more with the bat than he's done with the ball, another who may well average more than some of our batsmen who often seem undroppable.
Morning session crucial, it's up to the aussies to take early wickets. Lose Trott and Strauss early on and it could be game on, but I trust Prior, Flintoff, Broad and Swann could muster 30+ runs between us. Even if we were bowled out for under 100, I don't think that would improve the aussie chances of winning, merely reinforce the pitch getting harder to bat on and make even 150-200 look hard to get when England are already more than that in front. I can't help thinking of the BBC 606-er who wrote off England's chances of taking 20 wickets in this Test. Must have been based on the 1st day close of play score or the aussies being none down at the break in play
Owzat added 19 Minutes and 15 Seconds later...
I will refer you to the Test between England and Sri Lanka where England reputedly dropped NINE catches. 230 is chasable, even on a really tough pitch. Doesn't take many missed chances, much bad bowling (which England can easily manage) or much of a batting partnership to get there. A streaky or well fought for 50 from one or more of Katich, Ponting, Clarke, Hussey, North or Watson who could all manage it, and only a couple of partnerships of 60-80 and 230 doesn't look too daunting.
But of course the key to how many the aussies may get is mostly going to be gauged by how many England get 2nd innings and how comfortably. In my mind England getting bowled out for 150 might be best for England, leave over 300 to get batting last on a pitch where 150 and 160 were the last two totals on a deteriorating pitch. Shows how crucial the toss was, only ONCE in the last two Ashes series in England has the side batting first LOST - England at Headingley. So those who criticised Strauss' decision to bat should really have backed him as it has been only poor batting or bowling from England that has cost us, not batting first. I'd rather our captain was brave and batted first and got knocked over than let the opposition bat us out of the game by worrying about being bowled out cheaply batting first.
Now we can only hope, should we win, that the selectors make difficult decisions for the winter, difficult but the right ones. Anderson, Broad, Flintoff, Harmison and Swann all average between 30 and 35, obviously Flintoff has retired so England need to rethink five bowler policy as well as the make-up of the bowling attack. As for batting :
- Since his hundred against West Indies, Cook has scored 222 runs @ 24.67.
- Since his 199 against South Africa, Bell has scored 354 runs @ 22.15 and his career average is now under 40
- Since his hundred against West Indies, Collingwood has scored 327 runs @ 29.73
Little wonder England have collapsed for 81, 51 and 102 in the past 24 months, batsmen who generally get picked all the time going through spells of poor form so often that the batting order is fragile. Those aren't really short periods, enough time for a batsman in poor form to score 220-360 runs at a fairly poor average. For me the worrying problem is batsmen come in a play too many shots too early, show poor shot selection and play too wide or too near (play at too many balls they should leave) and when they do get in, they get themselves out. Consequently they go through bad spells of form, or is it just they need a poor bowling attack every second or third series to get easy runs, a hundred or two and their struggles in these kind of series is forgotten as their average is bolstered.
iridescentt
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3 for 58?
C'mon boys! Lets rip through this English tail.
C'mon boys! Lets rip through this English tail.
Cricketman
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Looks like it's missing a bracket in the front. Try [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC].
Whenever I'm not watching us play we seem to go better so the 1st session the Aussies will be without me hindering them 
I'm hoping after the big rugby clash is done we have a few more wickets at worst, best case England bowled out.
I'm hoping after the big rugby clash is done we have a few more wickets at worst, best case England bowled out.
D
Dutch
Guest
Whenever I'm not watching us play we seem to go better so the 1st session the Aussies will be without me hindering them
Yeah, I know which rugby match you are talking about! I am going to the return in September here in Wellington. I will be looking forward to that, hopefully in the knowledge that Andrew Strauss has got the old urn tucked up safely under his pillow! Anyway, that promises to be a cracker and a bruising affair tonight!
dutchad added 5 Minutes and 10 Seconds later...
Thank you my friend. I am a happy bunny!
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