Andy Flower or Kevin Pietersen - who stays?

Who stays?


  • Total voters
    52
KP needs to stay if england are to have an hope to rebuild ,he is the only counter attacking batsman they have got ,esp with bairstow doing no justice to the spot he was given.
I have always felt andy flower is to similar to cook and it kind of makes them one dimensional ,always coaches and captain with opposite personalities or atleast different personalities work good mostly (not considering dravid -chappel).

Either the captaincy should be passed to someone like broad or change andy or do both. right now cook definitely needs to concentrate on getting his batting back.not worry about bickering mates,thats the coach's job ,see how lehman has handled warner and watson, someone like that will be able to sitdown with KP and sort him out .

Only danger is, if you give the captaincy to Broad any reviews England have will be gone by drinks...

Aside from that though I do think that something in the England camp needs to change to come back from this "little hiccup" and therefore KP being of different mindset to the current men in charge is more likely to be able to do that.
 
If flower wanted KP out the side he should have done it when he was in a position of strength.

Fact is Flower took a team that contains I would say about 8 really good players (carberry, root and the 3rd seamer spot are still a bit dodgey) and oversaw them massively, massively under-performing.

if this was all KPs fault then Flower still deserves the blame for putting him in the sodding side when he was being a devisive influence. If flower was a good coach why didn't he take these measures before it lead to a 5-0 demolition from a team that is arguably weaker.

there's no legs to stand on, if KP is to be sacked from the England squad it should be by a new coach who thinks his position is untenable. not one that is retrospectively looking for excuses.
 
Only danger is, if you give the captaincy to Broad any reviews England have will be gone by drinks...

Aside from that though I do think that something in the England camp needs to change to come back from this "little hiccup" and therefore KP being of different mindset to the current men in charge is more likely to be able to do that.

Personally i find broady to be a good team guy esp for eng, more of the sly fox mould . Kp im not sure he is captain material esp long term ,but since you mentioned , im also forced to ponder if broad is given captaincy ,will KP be disgruntled?
In that case the best way would be to get a better coach ,so you know who are all in the market for coching job if england is to hire ?

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Piers Morgan needs to go.

He is already done and dusted
 
Personally i find broady to be a good team guy esp for eng, more of the sly fox mould . Kp im not sure he is captain material esp long term ,but since you mentioned , im also forced to ponder if broad is given captaincy ,will KP be disgruntled?
In that case the best way would be to get a better coach ,so you know who are all in the market for coching job if england is to hire

Oh I do think that Broad is a good team player, I was just referring to his high belief that every appeal not given should be reviewed!

The "new" KP from the post-2012 era is probably going to be fairly happy as long as England start to win again. He's current attitude (at least in press conferences etc) is one of "all for the team". With Swann's retirement the lack of an obvious replacement for Cook aside from KP is very apparent. Bell I suppose would be a possibility, or Broad. Personally I prefer batsman as captains though.

As for coaches, I don't know anyone else on the scene who could take over. I'm guessing most of the current regime is under the same current philosophy as Flower as well.
 
KP currently calling out certain journalist on his twitter page. Paul Newman from Daily Mail currently.
 
Newman broke the story about the ultimatum. He was the one who claimed that KP had been unprofessional etc during the series.
 
Newman broke the story about the ultimatum. He was the one who claimed that KP had been unprofessional etc during the series.

And both KP and Flower have denied it all. If (and I see no reason not too) we believe them then it seems to be media digging for a story more than anything else.
 
I don't buy that. No smoke without fire on this one. The story makes perfect sense given what we know about the setup.
 
Even if there is no feud, I would like Flower to go anyway. Although there was success for a couple of years, through tough "don't lose at all costs" cricket, I feel that they seem to have taken that too far. I don't blame Cook for England going at 2 an over, I blame Flower and Gooch. It's been the way for 2 years. The 5-0 wasn't a one off, there was New Zealand, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and South Africa. Since going to number one England have been hopeless and defensive (apart from India) and I think the whole staff needs a shakeup, and KP playing his natural game again.
 
I don't buy that. No smoke without fire on this one. The story makes perfect sense given what we know about the setup.

I think there are differences in the England camp, there are in any set up with people of different characters and natures, there are in my office where one person spends way too much time chatting.

And they're not such a hard worker the rest of the time that I'd say "no, don't get shot of them"



Specifically about the KP situation, I don't doubt his ego is always going to cause problems . But I do agree the Lebanna re the media trying to make a story, there may be problems there but the media are definitely trying to make it a story whether it is a key problem or not.

BBC Sport - Kevin Pietersen: England captain Alastair Cook fails to back batsman

BBC said:
Kevin Pietersen: England captain Alastair Cook fails to back batsman
Captain Alastair Cook has refused to give Kevin Pietersen any guarantees about his England future.

I agree with Cook, why should he guarantee one player uber alles?!?!? West Brom have just appointed Mel, there's a link where the BBC suggest "Baggies reject Mel as hunt goes on" which is completely different to what the article says, it's a spin, making it out to be more sensational than it was. They couldn't originally agree terms

There's no reason to suspect Pietersen will go so arguably this thread is as bad as the media, coaches can get sacked for poor results, but as a team effort then there's no reason Pietersen should go ahead of others, he was top runscorer in the series.

What caused the major problem in the series was lack of runs, Cook, Bell and Pietersen the experienced hands making 775 runs between them at an average of 26.72 with seven fifties in those 29 innings but none higher than 72no.

The rest of the batting, less experienced or simply not as central for various reasons - Carberry, Trott, Prior, Bairstow, Root, and Ballance - made 673 runs @ 21.71, Stokes did ok but the rest of the batting really didn't. That's barely enough runs (1448) to fill 2-3 decent Test efforts if you consider 550-600 a decent cumulative figure for one Test.

Add to that the key bowlers averaging 44 (Anderson), 80 (Swann), 41 (Bresnan) and only one decent average of 28 (Broad) standing alone in trying to make up for the lack of runs being scored.

Feeble efforts all round, but the focus of the media had to be political, KP vs those in charge, nothing original, nothing clever, same old lame old

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Oh I do think that Broad is a good team player, I was just referring to his high belief that every appeal not given should be reviewed!

The mistake they made with the review system was giving it to the players, they then had to limit it or they might as well review everything.

It should be with the umpires, to review every wicket given out and any they aren't sure about given not out - whether there's a thin nick, close LBWs, that kind of thing.

The inherent part of the problem, and the pressing need for a system of some sort, was trial by TV. It's the same with football, bad decisions exposed by camera angles, slow motion, and all the things the officials don't have.

The key question was always going to be how to keep it to a minimum use so as to avoid excess delays. One answer would be review more at the umpire's call, but if there's no reason to believe it is a bad decision after 1-2 REPLAYS, or after a fixed time limit, then play on.

Of course TV could help by limiting the amount of times they replay decisions, especially in football. I saw a replay (highlights programme) so many times I was left wondering why they were flogging it to death. They weren't going to change the decision, once it had been confirmed if it was good or bad they should have discussed, not continued replaying it.

In the old days umpires were respected because no one was trying to prove they got decisions wrong. Players accepted the decisions, now it is controversial because TV exposes mistakes and even worse because players have limited reviews in which to try and expose mistakes, and worse still because the reviews are used to only reverse decisions which aren't close, even though at the cost of a review, they should decide if it was hitting, in line or whatever, not "umpires call".

That costs them a review, leaves a bitter taste in the mouth because dorkeye shows it hitting the stumps and you know had the umpire called it the other way then the decision would have been the opposite and how the f* can it be out and not out on the same delivery?!?!?!?
 
The other things Cook said was how brilliant a coach Andy Flower is and how great it is he's agreed to stay on...
 
Pieterson out. A disruptive influence wherever he goes.
His ego is writing cheques his bat can't cash.:D
 
Well I'm glad someone voted for Flower. Most people though seem to consider the side's best player of more importance than a coach who just negatived his way to a 5-0 defeat.
 

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