Are India and Pakistan playing each other too often?

[rahulk666]

Oh wow, we get memorabilia to keep. Way to go. I feel so pampered and happy now. Who cares if our team sucks, at least I have that India jersey in my cupboard. And what abuse are you talking about? It's not as if they hang you upside down and torture you. The BCCI does not control things such as stadium quality controls--every stadium has a separate committee that is responsible for that. It is the ****ed up bureaucracy in India that is at fault.


Well, what can I say to an argument like that? It is totally foolproof isn't it? Except if I do not agree with it. Oh, wow!


Ahh, now fans have become the quality-influencing measure in cricket. On my way to school today I passed by a slum area. It was in fact behind a police station--a slight bit of what seemed like concrete land. Children were playing cricket there. They had probably never been to a cricket match and at most may have seen a match on the TV's in shops, outside. Yet they played cricket. The BCCI not selling water at a stadium or spending 33 lakhs on liquor won't really affect their outlook on the game.


Okay, first you have identified that it is the Delhi Cricket Association that spent the 33 lakhs, and not the actual BCCI. That is the problem with a huge country--one organization cannot control everyone. Thus they break down the system and try to manage the rest. The way the hierarchies are set up, the BCCI probably has almost no say in how the DCA spends it money. All the DCA cares about is that the BCCI gives them a match once in a tour. As for naturally-talented cricketers, surely in a country of billions, you can find 11 talented cricketers.

Let us, in fact, analyze the current Indian team. Who has got in on pure talent? Sehwag, Sachin, Ganguly, Laxman, Pathan, Harbhajan, Zaheer, Nehra. Who has got in after working hard? Dravid and Kumble. Balaji, to an extent. I am not analyzing the performance. Zaheer and Nehra may be disputable--but they were selected based on their raw talent. Zaheer for being a fast-bowler, and Nehra for having the knack of picking up wickets. When I was talking about quality, I was talking about performance. India losing to Pakistan 4-2 in the ODI series cannot be blamed on the BCCI.

There are, however, some points that I agree with you on. The BCCI is an extremely corrupt organization that is probably screwing Indian fans out of the overall joy that they get from cricket. But look at the context: they are simply an outgrowth of Indian politics. I am all for revolution, but you have to understand the roots. The BCCI are probably in a time-gap here, as they need to upgrade and increase the cricketing infrastructure in India to cope with the increasing population. Unfortunately, their messed up organization makes this a tedious process. It is not much help, either, that they have to acquire hundreds of permits just to be able to start something.

Laters.

Firstly, poor slum kids wouldn't be playing cricket if Sachin and similar demi-gods didn't play the game. Why would the current cricketers not play the game? Because they would not get enough money. Why would they not get enough money? Because there is no fan following and as a result less pay and no endorsement deals. So you see fans do rule. Cricket viewership is at the lowest in West indies for some time now. The cricket fans have migrated to other games like Basketball. Kids over there choose basketball over cricket now. There's obviously more money in basketball than cricket. Is this not a fact? ENgland is seeing a decline in cricket viewership and is innovating with 20-20 as fans are migrating to different sports from cricket.

Second, Delhi cricket association comes under BCCI. The BCCI allocates international matches in Delhi and also funds them for managing it. All the state cricket boards come under BCCI. If they don't then they will not take part in any of domestic competitions.

Third, If we have so many players with born cricket talent why are we at bottom of ICC Test and ODI ratings? May be "talent" also needs good cricket facilities and infrastructure so that the "talented" can improve on their "talent".

And lastly, Yes, the BCCI does in fact tortures the indian cricket fans. Not literally but by its way to doing things and postponing things and caring less about the fans. BCCI has enough money to improve the stadium conditions, security in at least the major cities by funding them appropriately. But they do not care about the fans. Mind my words, if BCCI does not improve its stand with the fans, cricket will start to die in India,. Or... umm may be not... as I may be correct in saying that Indian cricket fans are foolish and will be fooled by BCCI forever.

Also don't balme politics is stopping the BCCI in not doing better job or not being able to start something new. BCCI and its bodies are run by politicians.

Well there is some truth in the fact that India and Pakistan are ready to play each other this often because of commercial reasons.

Well just to add why is so much commercial reasons for Ind-Pak series. Because "INDIAN CRICKET FANS" give up everything to watch a Ind-Pak series. There you have it. The relation of BCCI/fans/players.

 

[indiancricketer]

well i like the idea of having it every 2 YEARS

 

[ZoraxDoom]

well i like the idea of having it every 2 YEARS

Nice way to break the montontony of this debate going on...
All I care is that Ten Sports shows the cricket here :cool:

Oh yea, I don't really play cricket because of players like Sachin, Dravid, etc. I play it because of players like Afridi, Klusener, Chanderpaul, etc. Players who are new, exciting and un-orthodox, and are succesful just being themselves. I also play it because of players who are deemed ordinary yet are quite succesful(e.g. Kumble. A spinner who can't turn the ball, look at him now) If it weren't for them I would have migrated to something else like soccer or baseball...so I don't completely agree with your arguement Rahul, although I do agree that the BCCI screws over its fans .

 

[sohum]

Rahul, I will admit that your argument is pretty foolproof (you have convinced me for the most part). However, there is still one major point that I disagree with: the game is not about the fans. Or, at any rate, it shouldn't be. Fans should not be the center of the sport. The players are the people who are playing the sport. You say the sport cannot exist without fans. Equally the sport cannot exist without players. In fact, less so.

That is why I feel that the fans were more at blame in the Artest affair. The importance of fans has only grown through commercialism. If sponsorship had never entered the fray, there would be no fans. But the sport would still exist. Cricket interest developed in India in 1983, when we won the World Cup. Then Sachin Tendulkar emerged. These two events propelled the sport to being the only option in the country. Sponsorship came afterwards.

The game has obviously become money-driven now and I agree that the BCCI can spend its money more wisely. But they have been responsible for generating interest in the sport of cricket by developing sponsorship contracts and moving the game forward. Dalmiya has achieved much for Indian cricket, the problem is that now he does not want to move on. If Dalmiya's era had never happened, India may have still been an unphysical unit as they were before, instead of a pretty decent international unit that is extremely fit and has a killer instinct for the most part.

 

[rahulk666]

Rahul, I will admit that your argument is pretty foolproof (you have convinced me for the most part). However, there is still one major point that I disagree with: the game is not about the fans. Or, at any rate, it shouldn't be. Fans should not be the center of the sport. The players are the people who are playing the sport. You say the sport cannot exist without fans. Equally the sport cannot exist without players. In fact, less so.

That is why I feel that the fans were more at blame in the Artest affair. The importance of fans has only grown through commercialism. If sponsorship had never entered the fray, there would be no fans. But the sport would still exist. Cricket interest developed in India in 1983, when we won the World Cup. Then Sachin Tendulkar emerged. These two events propelled the sport to being the only option in the country. Sponsorship came afterwards.

The game has obviously become money-driven now and I agree that the BCCI can spend its money more wisely. But they have been responsible for generating interest in the sport of cricket by developing sponsorship contracts and moving the game forward. Dalmiya has achieved much for Indian cricket, the problem is that now he does not want to move on. If Dalmiya's era had never happened, India may have still been an unphysical unit as they were before, instead of a pretty decent international unit that is extremely fit and has a killer instinct for the most part.

Well, thats what my point is too kinda...
I don't want a Ind-Pak series every year just because BCCI wants to fill their banks.
Popularity and commercialism are two sides of the coin buddy... Commercialization helps popularity and popularity helps commercialization. No Popularity, no Commercialization. No Commercialization, no Popularity. It is upto us, the FANS to control cricket's POPULARITY and COMMERCIALIZATION.

All I said in the beginning was
Players are making money
Boards are making money
Sponsors are making money
And fans are not controlling themselves from watching Ind-Pak over-playing with each other and acting like fools.

 

[cricketexpert]

I like the idea of having it every year

 

[rahulk666]

I like the idea of having it every year

Well I am sure the BCCI will oblige to your idea. May be you should consider making a generous donation to BCCI for entertaining your ideas.

 

[T20]

They will be switching to every 2 years after next Jan-Feb series.

 

[sohum]

2 years is perfect (normal, in fact) I think for India-Pakistan or any countries. As I said early on in this thread, I would prefer to see India take on opponents such as New Zealand, England and West Indies more in the test match arena. I've got bored of the Indo-Pak battles (and in fact the losses) for now.

 

[rahulk666]

I too think 2 years is a good time period. Good enough for building up the atmosphere for the series. Every one year would be too much and will mean that both India and Pakistan would be playing less cricket with other teams around the world.

Its been some time now that India hasn't been to SA for a full series. SA has improved a lot and I would love to see India and SA slug it out in the middle. Does anyone have an idea of when India might have a full series in SA?

 

[T20]

nov - dec 2006. here is the program till the next world cup.

Year Month/s Teams/Tournament Tests ODIs
2004/05 Feb-Apr HOME v Pakistan 3 5
2005 Aug AWAY: ODI series (Ind, Sri Lanka, W Indies) in Sri Lanka
2005/06 Oct AWAY: Super Series (Aus, Eng, Ind, Sth Africa, New Z'lnd, Pak, Sri Lanka, W Indies, Zim, B'desh) in Australia
2005/06 Oct AWAY v Zimbabwe *tbc *tbc
2005/06 Nov HOME v Sri Lanka *tbc *tbc
2005/06 Jan-Feb AWAY v Pakistan *tbc *tbc
2005/06 Feb HOME v England *tbc *tbc
2005/06 May AWAY v West Indies *tbc *tbc
2006/07 Oct HOME: ICC Champions Trophy (Aus, Eng, Ind, Sth Africa, New Z'lnd, Pak, Sri Lanka, W Indies, Zim, B'desh, Kenya) in India
2006/07 Nov HOME: Asia Cup (Ind, Pak, Sri Lanka, B'desh) in India
2006/07 Nov AWAY: ODI series (Ind, Sth Africa, Sri Lanka) in Sri Lanka
2006/07 Dec AWAY v South Africa *tbc *tbc
2006/07 Feb AWAY v New Zealand *tbc *tbc
2006/07 Mar-Apr AWAY: World Cup (Aus, Eng, Ind, Sth Africa, New Z'lnd, Pak, Sri Lanka, W Indies, Zim, B'desh, Kenya) in West Indies

 

[indiancricketer]

i like the upcoming Games

 

[SaiSrini]

I would love to see India-Australia now more than India-Pakistan. India-Australia is slightly lesser in hype than an India-Pakistan and are the next most keenly contested games. India won in 2001 and drew in 2003. But Australia showed who they are by beating India 2-1 in 2004. Now the excitement shifts to the next India-Australia encounter which sadly is only in 2008. When it comes to India-Pakistan, the results are clouded by stupid match fixing allegations, etc. It isnt the case with India-Australia. And Australia are the best in the world and India are certainly among the Top 4.

 

[rahulk666]

I would love to see India-Australia now more than India-Pakistan. India-Australia is slightly lesser in hype than an India-Pakistan and are the next most keenly contested games. India won in 2001 and drew in 2003. But Australia showed who they are by beating India 2-1 in 2004. Now the excitement shifts to the next India-Australia encounter which sadly is only in 2008. When it comes to India-Pakistan, the results are clouded by stupid match fixing allegations, etc. It isnt the case with India-Australia. And Australia are the best in the world and India are certainly among the Top 4.

Man.. if India played Australia right now, India would get screwed literally.

 

[andrew_nixon]

2006/07 Nov HOME: Asia Cup (Ind, Pak, Sri Lanka, B'desh) in India

Bit out of date there..... should read

2005/2006 Feb AWAY: Asia Cup (Ind, Pak, Sri Lanka, B'Desh, UAE, Oman) in Pakistan