Are'nt we over-estimating Don Bradman cricket-14?

[grkrama]

That one's odd - there's no mention of the Middlesex score. Presumably you're batting second given the target and run rate required.

ya i was chasing in that one simulated middlesex batting.

it was an oneday warm up match in tour though, dont know why it says trail by instead of need to win not that it matters.

 

[Rowdoss]

I am a member of two forums to do with one of my other interests (Napoleonic military history) and I don't remember one instance of the kind of back biting that occurs here on occasion. I should know, because I have been the victim of some of it.

I think, for some unknown reason, it is definitely a "gaming thing".
take a stroll through IGN's comments section to see a cross-section of the underbelly of society.
It's a shame.....

 

[inertSpark]

I am a member of two forums to do with one of my other interests (Napoleonic military history) and I don't remember one instance of the kind of back biting that occurs here on occasion. I should know, because I have been the victim of some of it.

I think its partly due to the fact that Planet Cricket by it's very nature attracts a lot of gamers for the cricket game discussions. As I said, GTAForums is a real shining example of how forums can degenerate with size and demographics. As a generalisation I would hazard a guess that Napoleonic military history wouldn't generate the same level of bluster and posturing!

 

[Biggs]

If you love cricket games and have played a lot of the titles through the years then there is no doubt this is the best cricket game available ( despite its few shortcomings) and it points toward a very exciting
future and it astounds me some MEMBERS of a CRICKET GAMING SITE cannot or refuse to see it. This game needs and deserves our support.

This guy gets it.

 

[Gabe]

The silly thing is though, and i keep harping back on it, the franchises people wish, hope and think this series should live up to have been long running series.

Whilst that's true for a number of things, nothing is created in a vacuum and there's no good excuse for such an awful scorecard. And it is awful; bowler's stats cramped into a wedge of the screen (and missing an important figure), it's ugly, 'Extras' are shown only as single number with no breakdown (and hidden under the fall of wickets) - none of these things would involve lots of testing, programming or graphic design.

Like I say, these things are not created in a vacuum and so there are a number of cricket games out there that have done scorecards better - in fact I'm genuinely struggling to think of a worse one I've ever seen (and again, I include old Spectrum and C64 games here). The fact that the in-match scorecard does include some of these things (which is an excellent touch, as I've said before - though is not unique to DB14) just makes it worse. I can only guess that the such design decisions weren't made by the same person, otherwise how did it go so wrong?

Things like AI, controls, commentary, depth (I'm thinking of adding additional tournaments - various World Cups, for example), better presentation of stats in general, more involvement in career mode (how can I see what honours my player has won? Clue: I can't) are indeed all things that will come with future examples, and I'm really looking forward to it.

But the little things that should have been in from the start that aren't - that's disappointing, breaks my immersion a bit and makes me like the game a little less.

 

[inertSpark]

Whilst that's true for a number of things, nothing is created in a vacuum and there's no good excuse for such an awful scorecard. And it is awful; bowler's stats cramped into a wedge of the screen (and missing an important figure), it's ugly, 'Extras' are shown only as single number with no breakdown (and hidden under the fall of wickets) - none of these things would involve lots of testing, programming or graphic design.

Like I say, these things are not created in a vacuum and so there are a number of cricket games out there that have done scorecards better - in fact I'm genuinely struggling to think of a worse one I've ever seen (and again, I include old Spectrum and C64 games here). The fact that the in-match scorecard does include some of these things (which is an excellent touch, as I've said before - though is not unique to DB14) just makes it worse. I can only guess that the such design decisions weren't made by the same person, otherwise how did it go so wrong?

Things like AI, controls, commentary, depth (I'm thinking of adding additional tournaments - various World Cups, for example), better presentation of stats in general, more involvement in career mode (how can I see what honours my player has won? Clue: I can't) are indeed all things that will come with future examples, and I'm really looking forward to it.

But the little things that should have been in from the start that aren't - that's disappointing, breaks my immersion a bit and makes me like the game a little less.

I can agree with this for the most part. As far as the overall presentation goes, things like scorecards are a little lacking. I do feel there is a little too much of people making assumptions that just because something was in a different game, then it must be bad. Presentation wise, these things were in other games because they worked, and the alternatives we have in DBC fall short. Just because DBC is making a break from the cricket games of old, it doesn't mean it can't take elements from those games.

 

[zombieian]

The silly thing is though, and i keep harping back on it, the franchises people wish, hope and think this series should live up to have been long running series.
budgets and size of teams aside , its the continual improvement that gets these things where they are. Sure budgets and employee numbers are crucial but people have just got to look at the big picture.
DBC 14, for all it faults (i prefer to call them foibles) is an incredible first up effort.
Feature rich, ground breaking control systems, im actually quite astounded at what Big Ant have crammed into a first up effort.
The example i keep going back to is NBA live.

Once an outstanding, much loved series, it came a cropper for whatever reason i cant remember now. But they had a hiatus, worked on a title for a bit which was canned then started from scratch with NBA Live 14.
Big budget, big team (which surely had some BBall experience) and they coughed up a dogs breakfast.
The areas DBC falls down a little are not unique to just this game. AI in sports games has long been the bane of gamers' existence.
However the one thing i dont get is a small minority of planet cricket members (now call me crazy but i expect most or all planet cricket members are ACTUALLY cricket game fans and have a long history with the relatively few titles over the years) being in total denial about this game.
If you love cricket games and have played a lot of the titles through the years then there is no doubt this is the best cricket game available ( despite its few shortcomings) and it points toward a very exciting
future and it astounds me some MEMBERS of a CRICKET GAMING SITE cannot or refuse to see it. This game needs and deserves our support.

-End Rant

I think people who have spent any time on this forum would agree with that. Most people only make recommendations and suggestions because they care about the game, and want to see it carry on.

 

[Rowdoss]

Whilst that's true for a number of things, nothing is created in a vacuum and there's no good excuse for such an awful scorecard. And it is awful; bowler's stats cramped into a wedge of the screen (and missing an important figure), it's ugly, 'Extras' are shown only as single number with no breakdown (and hidden under the fall of wickets) - none of these things would involve lots of testing, programming or graphic design.

Like I say, these things are not created in a vacuum and so there are a number of cricket games out there that have done scorecards better - in fact I'm genuinely struggling to think of a worse one I've ever seen (and again, I include old Spectrum and C64 games here). The fact that the in-match scorecard does include some of these things (which is an excellent touch, as I've said before - though is not unique to DB14) just makes it worse. I can only guess that the such design decisions weren't made by the same person, otherwise how did it go so wrong?

Things like AI, controls, commentary, depth (I'm thinking of adding additional tournaments - various World Cups, for example), better presentation of stats in general, more involvement in career mode (how can I see what honours my player has won? Clue: I can't) are indeed all things that will come with future examples, and I'm really looking forward to it.

But the little things that should have been in from the start that aren't - that's disappointing, breaks my immersion a bit and makes me like the game a little less.

I respect your opinion but the very fact we are nitpicking about scorecards and presentation should point to the fact that this is a pretty good game. I remember FIFA games of 97-2001 having horrendous presentation and stats/menu screens. A dev has to stop somewhere and from the outset Big Ant said gameplay was the priority. Im sure, as you say, these things will pick up in future iterations but i think it is more important that we applaud the things they got right and recognise it so we DO GET future versions that will make us all happy.

This guy gets it.

I'd take that as compliment normally but as it is directed to the current conversation, i regard "getting it" as compulsory

 

[Biggs]

Honestly, it's just the field sets that let the game down. Think about that. Nailed bowling to be fun, nailed batting mechanics to make it feel like you're picking gaps and playing shots like you would for real. Nailed online gameplay that is fun. Nailed a challenging replayable career mode. I don't see the idea that ones "immersion" in the game is jeopardised by there not being maiden overs reflected on a scorecard.

Should there be more stats and data available? Absolutely. Should there be more cutscenes or a regular detailed scorecard? Of course. Is it still the best cricket game ever made? Yes. If ones "immersion" is compromised by such things I find it hard to believe you're a genuine cricket gaming fan and/or have played any of the horrific games of the past that got so few things right by the same measuring stick.

 

[Gabe]

I respect your opinion but the very fact we are nitpicking about scorecards and presentation should point to the fact that this is a pretty good game. I remember FIFA games of 97-2001 having horrendous presentation and stats/menu screens. A dev has to stop somewhere and from the outset Big Ant said gameplay was the priority. Im sure, as you say, these things will pick up in future iterations but i think it is more important that we applaud the things they got right and recognise it so we DO GET future versions that will make us all happy.

I have said before that I think it's the best cricket game out there, and I think that's undisputedly true.

But I do think the game has some very big issues, I only mentioned the scorecard stuff because I believe that is a quick fix which would really help with immersion. The AI field settings are pretty poor; the AI batting isn't great (I've only played career mode - but when it's my turn to bat I see the AI play ridiculous shots all the time and almost arbitrarily get out, rather than through good bowling. Indeed, as I've said before, I'm a pure batsmen but still have respectable bowling figures with a best - as a 16yo with no skills - of 4 for 7); the commentary is, well, yeah; there seems to be no real impact of weather on the pitch conditions (not that we can find out the weather or conditions once a game has started), the lack of edges is a problem, simulated scores tend to go crazy in the 3rd & 4th innings of matches and there's a massive gulf between batting and bowling.

Now those "issues" are issues to varying degrees but I'm still playing it a lot and offering honest - and constructive (I think) - comments and support because I want this series to flourish. I'd love to see what BigAnt could do with a bigger budget, because I think the career mode suits a cricket game perhaps better than any other sport and this has been a good first attempt at it.

 

[zombieian]

Speaking as someone who has only really played against the AI, batting is fun, bowling not as much. I would like to see slightly more spin, seam and cut which, I hope, would lead to more edges and slip catches. I would like to see the normal shot with less power, and the ability, with good timing, to keep it on the ground. And, of course, a more intelligent AI.
Not too much for me to make it a very enjoyable and playable game.

 

[Gabe]

Honestly, it's just the field sets that let the game down. Think about that. Nailed bowling to be fun, nailed batting mechanics to make it feel like you're picking gaps and playing shots like you would for real. Nailed online gameplay that is fun. Nailed a challenging replayable career mode. I don't see the idea that ones "immersion" in the game is jeopardised by there not being maiden overs reflected on a scorecard.

Should there be more stats and data available? Absolutely. Should there be more cutscenes or a regular detailed scorecard? Of course. Is it still the best cricket game ever made? Yes. If ones "immersion" is compromised by such things I find it hard to believe you're a genuine cricket gaming fan and/or have played any of the horrific games of the past that got so few things right by the same measuring stick.

Well firstly, I disagree completely about the batting mechanics being nailed. I've said in another thread (and have seen others mention similar) that I believe both Ashes 09 and IC10 let you properly pick gaps in the field and work the ball around the ground. I feel less control here, less ability to pierce the gaps with any certainty, even if my timing is great.

Secondly, where have I ever said that my immersion is jeopardised by the scorecard stuff? My exact words are right there - that it "...breaks my immersion a bit and makes me like the game a little less." It's a little disappointing, no more, no less. I fully accept that some/many/most people aren't fussed.

And it really isn't just the field settings. The fact that the AI has to be tweaked to ensure the bowler doesn't catch every drive has never been an issue in any other game I've ever played. Why is that then? To me that demonstrates an issue with the straight drive, lack of shots along the ground and fielding team reactions. 3 things that aren't field setting issues, and all problems. And it's completely counter-intuitive to suggest that you must play an aggressive ground shot (with a smaller timing window) to make it go along the ground, rather than just a normal non-trigger shot. Playing defensive shots is also far more risky than it should be, other than for terrible timing. Again, not a field setting issue.

As I said above, these issues are issues to varying degrees to each person, but they are still there.

I'm sorry if I don't meet your definition of a 'genuine cricket gaming fan' but I'll probably get over it.

 

[Rowdoss]

Well firstly, I disagree completely about the batting mechanics being nailed. I've said in another thread (and have seen others mention similar) that I believe both Ashes 09 and IC10 let you properly pick gaps in the field and work the ball around the ground. I feel less control here, less ability to pierce the gaps with any certainty, even if my timing is great

Sorry but i have to strongly disagree with this. Other cricket games have a reticule on the pitch telling, no, gifting, you the exact position of the forthcoming delivery.
NO other cricket game has allowed you to control foot movement, arguably the most important aspect of batting. Couple that with the short time you have to go through the options and decide what foot movement and shot to play it is as close to real batting as any game has got, ever, NO possible argument can be mounted otherwise.
Shot placement and the little bug that has seen it hard to keep shots on the ground are another matter and im sure we will see those fixed. But as far as batting mechanics go, any suggestion that this isnt streets ahead of anything ever is laughable.

And it really isn't just the field settings. The fact that the AI has to be tweaked to ensure the bowler doesn't catch every drive has never been an issue in any other game I've ever played. Why is that then?

That is because, can you imagine the run rate if said bowler didnt stop most of them? It is definitely an area that needs a lot of improvement. He cant catch most of them because that would be silly but he cant let them go because we would all hit most full deliveries past him for 4. This is the type of thing im trying to bring to attention. Its not "cricket" but for the sake of gameplay it has to be the case. Games are meant to be fun, not an accurate substitute for those of us not good enough to play international cricket. It is a minor bug bear in the scheme of things.

 

[Chief]

NO other cricket game has allowed you to control foot movement, arguably the most important aspect of batting. Couple that with the short time you have to go through the options and decide what foot movement and shot to play it is as close to real batting as any game has got, ever, NO possible argument can be mounted otherwise.

There's an argument to be mounted that says that foot movement *was* also in C07, AC09, IC10...

But I agree that it is as close to real batting as any game has got.

 

[Rowdoss]

I suppose that is true, front and back foot is a lot different from "directional" foot placement though, but its all part of the evolution