Ashes debate thread.

[JamesyJames3]

Not particuarly happy with the inclusion of Plunkett. However, I guess we haven't really got anyone else to put in there, unless we went with another injured player in Simon Jones who is only going to be fit for the last 2 tests at most. I also don't see the point in taking Giles. It's such a waste of a position. We are going to need 2 spinners in at least one of the tests and they have taken two left arm spinners? Variation guys? Giles isn't great at the best of times and think we would have been better taking an off-spinner in Jamie Dalrymple.

Also, Mahmood in the one day squad? Why do we never learn. Yes, he won us the game at the weekend, but he isn't good enough and will probably get destroyed in Australia and at the Champions Trophy.

 

[Sureshot]

I agree with 99% of the selections in both the Ashes and CT squads; Rikki Clarke being the other 1%. :

Delighted to see Anderson in there as well as GoJo, but it's a bit harsh on Matt Prior to be honest. Strauss should be captain in my opinon though.

Pah, Rikki Clarke! :

What the hell has he done to deserve that place? :

I did find it funny how Senile Bob Willis said that Prior isn't very good with the gloves, he's based that on the below par in the field in India. Agreed Prior isn't as good with the gloves as Read and atm Jones, but he's so far ahead in a batting sense.

 

[Stephen Bailey]

Not particuarly happy with the inclusion of Plunkett. However, I guess we haven't really got anyone else to put in there, unless we went with another injured player in Simon Jones who is only going to be fit for the last 2 tests at most. I also don't see the point in taking Giles. It's such a waste of a position. We are going to need 2 spinners in at least one of the tests and they have taken two left arm spinners? Variation guys? Giles isn't great at the best of times and think we would have been better taking an off-spinner in Jamie Dalrymple.

Agreed. Not only is it a lack of variation, but Giles hasn't been bowling and is becoming more and more injury prone. Same with Anderson and Plunkett, neither of them have played serious cricket for a long time, particularly Anderson. I'm not entirely sure about Flintoff being the captain either, not because he's not a good captain, but he hasn't been quite the same bowler since doing it.

I did find it funny how Senile Bob Willis said that Prior isn't very good with the gloves, he's based that on the below par in the field in India. Agreed Prior isn't as good with the gloves as Read and atm Jones, but he's so far ahead in a batting sense.

It seems the selectors have made up their mind about Prior after a few ODI games, which is ridiculous. I've said previously he is a far better FC batsman than OD batsman. He should atleast have been in the squad. Jones hasn't really done anything with the bat since being dropped to warrant being in there.

 

[Skater]

I have never been a fan of Matt Prior. The selectors have precisely the wicket keepers I wanted.

I am of the opinion that Andrew Flintoff will be under so much pressure from the Australian crowd and the captaincy that he won't be able to play at his best in the series. I would have made Andrew Strauss the captain.

 

[evertonfan]

In Australia, i'm of the view that our Keeper has to bat well. Whether it be GoJo or Read, we really need our keeper to back up any collapses. Not a lot of people realise that some of the innings that GoJo played last summer where very effective and the 150+ stand with Fred at Trent Bridge was match-winning. Not to mention that he and KP saved us from even more embarrassment at Lords in the first innings. England had runs from their Keeper last year, not a heap of runs by any means but enough, whereas in contrast, Australia didn't and it proved to be another part of their downfall.

 

[Sureshot]

In that series Jones keeping was poor though.

He never gives you the full packages. It's either batting or keeping not both.

 

[langerrox]

read isnt that bad of a bat is he? What i've seen his been aggressive and its paid off sometimes, Thats the role a keeper should have not a go for singles attitude but a boundary attitude?

Gojo better hope he doesn't play, he will get alot of abuse from the crowd:d

 

[Sureshot]

No, Read has averaged over 50 for Nottinghamshire since his last England run, 2004 it finished. He also has a good record in List A for Notts, has 2 List A Centuries.

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/19346.html

Decent average for someone who more often than not plays in the last 10-15 overs of an innings.

 

[MUFC1987]

No, Read has averaged over 50 for Nottinghamshire since his last England run, 2004 it finished. He also has a good record in List A for Notts, has 2 List A Centuries.

http://content-uk.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/19346.html

Decent average for someone who more often than not plays in the last 10-15 overs of an innings.

I'm pretty sure those One Day centuries come from opening the Innings, (which is the reason why I suggested him opening) so I wouldn't look too far into that. Incidently his record was good for a couple of seasons until this year in FC, which suggests to me that it was only ever going to be Read that was recalled.

On your earlier point about Jones not providing the whole package, I think that applies to Wicketkeepers as a whole in that they're never remembered for doing well in both. A great stumping or catch that turns a game, gives them a good rep as a gloveman, but means that a vital 40 or so could be forgotten.

With regards to the Ashes, I'd like to see it kept flexible. Rather than seeing one keeper being kept on all the way through no matter what happens, there should be competition, which will create the correct mentality. It's been well publicised that Collingwood, Bell and Cook know that they have to fight for their test place in the FC game, I'd like to see the selectors suggesting the same thing for the WK's, as I think complacency could set in.

 

[Sureshot]

They may not say it publicly, but I doubt either Read or Jones is certain they'll play 5 matches no mater what with the other in the wings.

I think Read is more valuable at the end of an innings, he's very good down the order. Quick runner, good over leg side, low bat means he can get out yorkers.

I think Sanga did well in the series over here in both departments, but then he is the best in the world at it.

I'm getting worried of the prospect of Giles playing in the Ashes. He plays, we lose. Monty plays, we have a chance.

It's taken 15 Tests for Giles to reach what Monty has taken in 10 Tests. Ironically, counting back on CricInfo, it turns out to be his best bowling performance for England, against WIndies in 2004. Oh, how embarrasing it would be for us if he plays.

 

[aussie_ben91]

Giles will get eaten alive by the likes of Langer, Hayden, Punter & Hussey!

 

[kodos]

That is if Giles plays which I certainly hope not

 

[Sureshot]

It's hard to read Fletchers mind at times.

Giles does strengthen our tail, but in the Pakistan series our tail outscored theirs.

it beggars belief he should even be in Aus. Thank goodness he's 33 and not 23.

 

[Stephen Bailey]

it beggars belief he should even be in Aus. Thank goodness he's 33 and not 23.

Oh I don't know about that, if he was 23 he might still have a chance of improving.

Fletcher really doesn't make sense though, he can't wait to get in young fast bowlers, but when we find a spinner who is full of talent, he is reluctant to pick him. If he went on the basis of someone who has experience, can hold a bat and bowls then surely the likes of Glen Chapple would've played by now? I'm not saying Chapple should necessarily play, just using him as an example. Giles just shouldn't be playing because he has had no cricket since the Pakistan tour.

 

[evertonfan]

Fletcher really doesn't make sense though, he can't wait to get in young fast bowlers, but when we find a spinner who is full of talent, he is reluctant to pick him. If he went on the basis of someone who has experience, can hold a bat and bowls then surely the likes of Glen Chapple would've played by now? I'm not saying Chapple should necessarily play, just using him as an example. Giles just shouldn't be playing because he has had no cricket since the Pakistan tour.

I agree Stevie, i've constantly argued on this site that if Fletcher was so concerned about experience and our bowlers batting, then Chapple is the man. I also don't think he should be playing against Australia though, just bringing that point up.

And as far as i'm concerned, you pick a spinner to spin and not bat. Monty has batted at 11 throughout his England career so he doesn't get much time to spend at the crease and therefore he can't show us his batting skills properly. Giles has done a good job for England but that's all he'll ever do, a 'good job'. He won't win us games, he won't rip through batting line-ups and he shouldn't be in the side because he can score 20-30 runs at 8. Monty has proven in his short time in an England shirt that he is capable of bowling sides out and he is a very aggressive spin bowler; England's number 1 in my opinion.